Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

[SCOTT502]

Hey everyone,

I currently have a 60w Valvtronix VTX combo that satisfies (for the most part) my amp needs right now. I use it only for recording. I mic it with an Audix i5 and get some decent sounds out of it. My question is this; how would running it to a 4x12 cab and micing that change my sound? Would it be noticably different? ( i.e. worth the money) And if so how?

I realize that this is a question that can only be answered in general terms but any info would be most helpful as I have never played through a 4x12 cab.

Also if it would make a big difference then what would be the best sounding cab to own? (again I know this is a reletive question but I am also aware that there are better sounding cabs than others)

Thanks a lot for the help.

Scott

 

[Loserchief]

Re: Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

IMO the money for a good 4x12 is way too much if you are just recording anyway. In general you should get a sound with more bottom and body to it, but i don't think that would be worth the expense.
There are lots of great 4x12s out there. My Favs from the ones are treid are Engl Pros, Orange and Mesa Traditionals

 

[J Moose]

Re: Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

One of the million dollar questions in my field...

Yes, using a different cab with the amp will change the tone. Better, worse... or just different?! That's up to you to decide I guess and highly dependent on what speakers the cab is loaded with and the overall quality of the cabs...

In general... having a 4x12 AND an open back 1x12 around opens up a lot of possibilites for micing. A 4x12 is going to have a deeper, more extended low end... lots more thump. There's also a LOT more forward projection...the sound 'beams' out rather then spreading out through the room like an open back cab. More volume is generated since the speakers are displacing four times the air of a 1x12 so it's gonna be considerably louder in the room...

As for what the microphone hears...

Given identical speakers (or even the exact same one!) in an open back cab or a closed back with a mic anywhere from right on the grille to a couple inches back, there IS a difference. Subtle...but there. Mostly low-mid size and tightness.

Pull the mics farther back into the room... say 6-10" back from the cab and the differences start becoming pretty obvious... Putting a mic on just one speaker of a 4x12, it won't 'hear' the other speakers in the cab and won't be that much different then micing a 1x12 closed back cab.

You'd have to either mic up all the speakers and blend 'em together...use a room mic...or my consistently favorite place to stick something is about 2-3 feet back from a 4x12, mic aimed right smack 'center' between all 4 speakers. That seems to be where the tone of the cab comes into focus...

Not to mention that with a 4x12 you can do more advanced tricks like putting a mic on the rear baffle or the side handles for more low end and blending them with the front mics...

Worth it? I dunno. Depends on what else is around... different microphones or more amps might yeild greater tonal possbilites.

More colors vs. different shades of the same color.

 

[SCOTT502]

Re: Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

Thanks a lot for the info guys. After thinking about it a little while and reading your responses I'm leaning toward spending the money elsewhere in the "studio".

Now comes the hard part and I'll need some more advise on this. My current set up is this:

Vox Valvtronix VTX 60watt amp. closed back 1x12 combo.
Audix i5
Rode NT 2a
Presonus Inspire 1394 audio interface
M-Audio midi keyboard controller
Apple i5
Logic Express
Cubase (whatever the basic version is...it was bundled w/ the Presonus)
DKFH
KRK rp6 monitors


I have already treated the room walls with Auralex foam but I still need to treat the corners with thier LENRD bass traps so that's a definite next step.

After the bass traps I will have about $700 left to spend. GIve me recommendations as to where in the signal chain my money would be best spent. I've thought about adding an SM 57 or an MD 421. I've thought about upgrading to either full blown Cubase or Logic. A better interface with better preamps? Plugins?

So what where would you invest your money?

 

[J Moose]

Re: Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

What's the "goal" of your home studio?

Are you looking to cut song-writing demos & maybe do overdubs on a record project or are you looking at being able to do a good chunk of "real" work there down the road?

Anywhoo... Auralex stuff is generally overpriced & just NOT the dough... ESPECIALLY the basstraps which I've found to be semi-useless... given their cost it's almost criminal!!!

http://gikacoustics.com/

http://realtraps.com/

Or build your own...lots of plans out there on the net. Good info here too; http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

I'd start with adding microphones... after the player/instrument that's where the tone begins. It'll NEVER be "better" then that no matter how much it's manipulated...

Adding a 421 would be money well spent. They're useful for anything & everything from guitar cabs, kick drum, vocals... horns... good mics. Small diaphragm condensors always come in handy too...

Having a "real" preamp around would also make a huge difference... the front end. None of the 'interfaces' are going to be all that much different from each other... you'd have to spend some good money to get an improvement but it's money well spent...

On the used market the Peavey VMP-2 can be had for under $1000, maybe still under $800?! KILLER unit. What a sleeper... I've got one hanging out next to the vintage Neve & Telefunkens...

These are pretty hip too; http://mercenary.com/fmrrnmp.html http://mercenary.com/toaudeafdumi.html

I wouldn't invest in plug-ins so much... concentrate on getting good sounds into the rig. You can always send things out for mix & if the tones are good any halfway decent mix AE will be able to make it sound great!

 

[SCOTT502]

Re: Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

Thank you so much J Moose! That's exactly the kind of information I was hoping to get.

I want to accumulate equipment that i can grow into and not have to constantly upgrade....at the same time I don't have the budget ( or the need ) for the REALLY nice stuff. I guess I'd just rather have a few nice things at my disposal so I know that whatever problems I hear in a mix are things that I can work through and learn from and not the result of the equipment.

I had looked into building my own traps from a design I got from Sound on Sound mag. but got lazy...now I'll reconsider. Mics and preamp are the way to go then. I guess logically the preamp should come first as it will make my existing mics sound better, then I can add more mics in the future. That peavey sounds cool...there's one on e-bay right now with a bin price of $929 that may be something to seriously consider.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

Those VMP2's weren't very expensive new... I think $850?! Amazing tone & value for the money.

**** good sounding preamp!!! But like most really killer PV products they discontinued it... WHY?!?! lol

If you can go to about $1500 for a stereo preamp there's LOTS of things to consider... This is pretty killer - http://manleylabs.com/containerpages/LDVC.html

Manley also makes a preamp/EQ only version that's wee bit less... but those opto limiters are the beez kneez!!! Really hard to make it sound bad...

I'd still go mics before preamps... sure, mics will sound 'better' going into a good micamp, but having more mics around increases the tonal options. The micamp can only shade the color, not dramatically change it.

Something to think about...

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

yeah man it's worth it and i'd say do LOTS of research on cabs & especially speakers, and be sure to go with something with a different sound, not the one most like your current sound, otherwise you'll regret it

 

[SCOTT502]

Re: Adding a 4x12 cab to a combo?

Thanks again for all the help! Mics first it is...