Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

B

bara686

New member
Hi all,

I recently received a JB and Jazz neck with riveted baseplates to fit my EVH Wolfgang Standard. Unfortunately, the pole screws are slightly longer (sighting it, looks like about 1/8 of an inch) than the original height of the OEM pickups, so they are not a direct fit in the cavity.

Wiring this thing isn't going to be easy and being that the bridge pickup is a JB, I am worried about the pickup being too close to the strings before moving forward with the wiring, etc.

Could anyone chime in on my ideas/questions below?

Full disclaimer: I am an amateur when it comes to modding, woodworking, etc. and in an apartment, so I have little tools. I unfortunately don't have the extra cash to take this to a luthier, so I was hoping to make this work myself.

1. Adjust the bridge to account for increased height of pickup and hope it doesn't throw off my action too badly.
2. Shave the pole pieces - I heard this has an effect on tone? Likely re-sale, if I don't like the pickups...
3. Can I use sand paper to slightly deepen the cavity for the pole pieces or do I need more intricate tools?

Thank you!
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

Don't own an EVH but have heard of a few, potential problems with aftermarket swap. If the stock pickups have a piece of foam underneath, the polepiece screw length issue may or may not be a problem. That would depend on how thick the foam is and how much adjustment you need, assuming that the new pups actually are "thicker" than the stock pups because of those screw lengths. Have you physically removed a stock pup and dropped in the SD replacement to actually check fitment? That would be the first thing I would do. My understanding is that, on some models anyway, the "wings" of the route that accomodate the mounting legs are smaller/rounded than standard routes. I've read of aftermarket pickups requiring either the mounting legs ground or filed down and rounded in order to fit. Or, the stock pickup baseplate being removed and fit onto the aftermarket pickup. If any filing or grinding is needed, the baseplate will need to be pulled from the pickup first otherwise you are going to have a mess of metal particles sticking to the new pickups and you don't want that. Magnets and metal can be a bad combination. Same would go for shortening the screws.

The point of the above is simply to suggest that you make sure you aren't dealing with multiple fitment issues before you get started. And, to make sure you are up to tackling whatever you are up against. Again, I'm just going by what I've read from others. I have no hands on experience with replacing pickups in those guitars.

I'm guessing that someone here does have direct experience and will be able to provide good information.
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

Darg1911 said:
Don't own an EVH but have heard of a few, potential problems with aftermarket swap. If the stock pickups have a piece of foam underneath, the polepiece screw length issue may or may not be a problem. That would depend on how thick the foam is and how much adjustment you need, assuming that the new pups actually are "thicker" than the stock pups because of those screw lengths. Have you physically removed a stock pup and dropped in the SD replacement to actually check fitment? That would be the first thing I would do. My understanding is that, on some models anyway, the "wings" of the route that accomodate the mounting legs are smaller/rounded than standard routes. I've read of aftermarket pickups requiring either the mounting legs ground or filed down and rounded in order to fit. Or, the stock pickup baseplate being removed and fit onto the aftermarket pickup. If any filing or grinding is needed, the baseplate will need to be pulled from the pickup first otherwise you are going to have a mess of metal particles sticking to the new pickups and you don't want that. Magnets and metal can be a bad combination. Same would go for shortening the screws.

The point of the above is simply to suggest that you make sure you aren't dealing with multiple fitment issues before you get started. And, to make sure you are up to tackling whatever you are up against. Again, I'm just going by what I've read from others. I have no hands on experience with replacing pickups in those guitars.

I'm guessing that someone here does have direct experience and will be able to provide good information.
Click to expand...

Thank you Darg for the considerations - this is very helpful.

I have tried fitting the new pickups already - just the bridge one though. From what I can see, the pole pieces extend beyond the mounting legs of the SD just slightly. With the OEM pickups, this was not an issue. I have already removed the foam/spring under the humbuckers to gain access to the wiring route. I screwed in the new bridge humbucker, being mindful not doing it too much to the point where the wood will put upward pressure on the pole pieces. I should have measured how high the existing pickup was before taking it out to see if having a little extra lift is an issue, but hindsight is 20/20.

The pickups I have bought were custom ordered with riveted/notched baseplates to fit. The pickups seem to fit squarely in the cavities, the depth issue aside.

Any other considerations? Thanks again!!
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

Just cut the screws a bit shorter with some wire cutters.
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

OK, so the only potential issue will be one of depth and therefore height adjustability. If that becomes and issue, raising the action is not really a viable solution. If the guitar sucks to play, what's the point of how it sounds.

So, sounds like you will have two options ... either remove the screws and, carefully, shorten them ... or better yet, buy some new screws and shorten those and replace the existing screws. The shorter screws may have some effect on the tone but it probably wouldn't be much.

Or, you can create a very shallow channel in the bottom of the pickup cavity just to accomodate the longer screws. That could be done very neatly with a router if you built a guide but that's beyond what you have available. You could use a small forstner bit to make a line of small holes, just deep enough to accomodate the extra screw length and clean up the rest with a sharp chisel. You'd have to precisely locate where the channel needs to be otherwise you'll end up having to widen the channel.

Or, you could free hand it with a Dremel and cutting or grinding wheel. That would probably be messy even though you wouldn't see it. Personally, I'd skip the Dremel.

I'd probably go with with the Forstner bit but that's just because I have them already and am confident enough to pull it off. Without the tools and some experience, probably going with the shorter screws for starters would be the safe approach. You could use a small hacksaw if you can clamp them in a vise. Or, a Dremel and cut off wheel. The only real trick is in being able to maintain a clean enough thread to allow the screw to thread back in smoothly. I've done it before (not for pickups) with a little clean up of the threads with a small file, or even the Dremel and same cut off wheel, but it's kind of hit or miss. It almost seems silly seeing how such a small amount needs to be taken off. It would be much easier if you could just cut them without removing them. But again, the metal shavings and dust would be a nightmare on your new pickups so don't do it that way. At any rate, if you go that route, buy extra screws. Philadelphia Luthier Supply is a good source for the screws but they are available from a number of sources.

Again ... be sure you need to do any of this. You may have clearance without having to do a thing. And, there may be better, or different ways to do this. This is just off the top of my head. I'm a tinkerer, not a luthier.
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

Chris presents another option. If you can get a hold of a tool that will cut the screws flush, that would be easy. But afterward, you may not be able to remove the screws without screwing up the threads in the baseplate. If you don't care, that's definitely the easiest approach. I'm not sure that a standard pair of diagonal cutters would cut them. Maybe they would. But a decent pair of 9" linesman pliers probably would. They have pretty good torque and a decent cutting edge on the side. I have an old Klein 9" linesman pliers that I have used to shorten small screws in the past.
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

I hadn't thought of cutting the screws or replacing them. Would cutting them alter tone in a significant way? Are they easy to remove and replace without damaging the pickup?

Worst case, I just work with what I have - install them and see if I like the sound. If not, I can always undo that and determine if I need to pay someone to have the wood routed I guess!
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

bara686 said:
I hadn't thought of cutting the screws or replacing them. Would cutting them alter tone in a significant way? Are they easy to remove and replace without damaging the pickup?

Worst case, I just work with what I have - install them and see if I like the sound. If not, I can always undo that and determine if I need to pay someone to have the wood routed I guess!
Click to expand...

Come to think of it, the polepiece screws dont thread through the baseplate, they just pass through. I believe they thread into the "plastic" bobbins. The baseplate is held on with 4 small screws, 2 in each bobbin and they are unrelated to the polepiece screws. I don't know if shortening the screws would change the tone but you would be taking such a relatively small amount off that if it did, it probably wouldn't be very significant. I'm not sure you will get a definitive answer on that because I think they are mostly a standard length. Under normal circumstances nobody would have much reason to alter the length.
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

Darg1911 said:
Come to think of it, the polepiece screws dont thread through the baseplate, they just pass through. I believe they thread into the "plastic" bobbins. The baseplate is held on with 4 small screws, 2 in each bobbin and they are unrelated to the polepiece screws. I don't know if shortening the screws would change the tone but you would be taking such a relatively small amount off that if it did, it probably wouldn't be very significant. I'm not sure you will get a definitive answer on that because I think they are mostly a standard length. Under normal circumstances nobody would have much reason to alter the length.
Click to expand...

It's sounding positive that this could be an easy fix. I suppose I can take the existing screws to a hardware store and find something slightly shorter! I'm not concerned with slight changes to tone, I doubt I'd be able to tell. As long as I'm not altering the entire feel of the pickup, I'm good!
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

bara686 said:
It's sounding positive that this could be an easy fix. I suppose I can take the existing screws to a hardware store and find something slightly shorter! I'm not concerned with slight changes to tone, I doubt I'd be able to tell. As long as I'm not altering the entire feel of the pickup, I'm good!
Click to expand...

They are fillister head screws and they need to be steel but NOT stainless steel (because it's not magnetic, or only mildly so). 5/40 thread, 3/4" long is "standard" and there are different alloys like 1018 and 1010. If you need to lose 1/8" in length you'd have to find 5/40 thread, 5/8" long nickel plated fillister head screws. And to have the least impact on tone, they'd probably have to be of the same steel that Seymour Duncan uses. Might be a long shot finding them but you never know.
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

Shorter screws tighten the sound up a bit, but it's a minor difference. I probably wouldn't notice it if I didn't know I did it.
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

^ And a JB is something that is often a little loose in the first place - so maybe a benefit.
 
Re: Advice needed: pups don't fit direct mount cavities

Darg1911 said:
They are fillister head screws and they need to be steel but NOT stainless steel (because it's not magnetic, or only mildly so). 5/40 thread, 3/4" long is "standard" and there are different alloys like 1018 and 1010. If you need to lose 1/8" in length you'd have to find 5/40 thread, 5/8" long nickel plated fillister head screws. And to have the least impact on tone, they'd probably have to be of the same steel that Seymour Duncan uses. Might be a long shot finding them but you never know.
Click to expand...

VERY helpful. Thank you Darg! I'll see if the local hardware store has any or look online.

Christopher and AlexR, thank you as well - good to know this will do me some extra good!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top