Where is the proof , or maybe it's just psychological, , that amp speakers with Alnico magnets give a warmer sound,& produce chime in some amps, and Ceramic ones are harsher and brittle? I would think the real difference is in the design of the speaker; the depth, shape of the cone, the coil etc. If there are differences in tone they would only show if a speaker was pushed to it's absolute limit-very rare
Alnico & Ceramic speaker magnet tone: myth or reality ??.
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ICTGoober
New member
One of my pals is a speaker freak, and he can drone on and on about all the testing he's done switching out speakers in a number of cabs and then noting the differences in sound. He knows all the impedances, cone materials, magnet material blends - all that. I'm having supper with him tonight if you'd like me to ask him for his favorite trusted sources of info...
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
It's hardly ever apples to apples.
You'd need to compare a speaker where the only thing that changes is the magnet.
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm under the impression the Alnico Blue is the same speaker as the Greenback and the Anniversary H30, just with a different magnet. THat comparison would be interesting.
In either case, the Alnico Blue is anything but warm.
And it's not hard to push an Alnico Blue to its absolute limit. It's only 15W. Hell, even the Greenback and the Anniversary are both 25 and 30W respectively.
FWIW, I have a Celestion Gold in a Krank 1x12, and it's not really warm either. Most Celestions aren't, TBH.
You'd need to compare a speaker where the only thing that changes is the magnet.
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm under the impression the Alnico Blue is the same speaker as the Greenback and the Anniversary H30, just with a different magnet. THat comparison would be interesting.
In either case, the Alnico Blue is anything but warm.
And it's not hard to push an Alnico Blue to its absolute limit. It's only 15W. Hell, even the Greenback and the Anniversary are both 25 and 30W respectively.
FWIW, I have a Celestion Gold in a Krank 1x12, and it's not really warm either. Most Celestions aren't, TBH.
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GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
I've never spent time comparing them, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was some change in sound going from alnico to ceramic in a speaker. My suspicion would be that it would probably add a little bit of certain frequencies to what the speaker spits out. But it's certainly not the only part of speaker design.
Like compare an Eminence Cannabis Rex (50 watt ceramic speaker) to a Celestion V30 (60 watt ceramic speaker). They are both ceramic in similar power handling ranges, but don't sound remotely similar.
Like compare an Eminence Cannabis Rex (50 watt ceramic speaker) to a Celestion V30 (60 watt ceramic speaker). They are both ceramic in similar power handling ranges, but don't sound remotely similar.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
I'm actually curious about that too.
I know heavy magnet speakers are louder than medium magnet speakers becuase the magnet is stronger. But the Celestion H magnet is 50 oz while the M is 35 oz. A typical Celestion Alnico magnet is 42 oz, yet it's almost always as efficient as a Ceramic H magnet. Like... is Ceramic denser than Alnico? Or how come Alnico have the same output than a heavier mass of Ceramic?
yes you do that
Just on the issue of alnico blue's. These are 'the ones to have' if you have a Vox-especially the AC15 & 30 models . The ones that produce the classic 'chime' and 'bell like' tones, and people pay good money for them! In practice those things I mentioned are more to do with the amp, the guitar and your playing rather than just putting in a Celestion Blue..The magnet on a Greenback is ceramic compared to the alnico on a blue. Not sure about other comparisons.
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Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
The VOX I played in the recording studio and fell in love with had greenbacks. I have just ordered a set of Tone Speak Birmingham speakers for my AC30.
- 12 inch (305 mm) steel basket diameter
- 75 watts, 8 ohm, 100 dB SPL
- 1.75 inch copper voice coil, Nomex former
- Kurt Müller speaker cone
- 50 oz. ferrite magnet
i dont think ive ever heard any other alnico than a5 in a speaker.
a blue and g12m dont sound much a like to me. i think the v30 was an attempt to make a speaker that sounded like a blue that had much higher power handling and we know how that turned out.
weber makes a variety of almost identical speakers and this is what they say about power handling
a blue and g12m dont sound much a like to me. i think the v30 was an attempt to make a speaker that sounded like a blue that had much higher power handling and we know how that turned out.
weber makes a variety of almost identical speakers and this is what they say about power handling
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Thanks. I did not know this. How hard would a magnet swap be in a speaker? I am guessing it is difficult/impossible. If it were easy, we would hear of guitar players doing it all the time.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
The speaker is one of the most important aspects of tone. I think a Vox through Greenbacks still sounds like a Vox. But at the same time, I think the Vox through a pair of Blues is the Vox sound, IMO.
why do you think that is ? something that happened by accident ? as you mentioned, they are rated at 15 watt, so will likely to distort sooner ...
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
No, I say that because most of the iconic Vox records that I can think of have been recorded with Blues rather than Greenbacks, so that's what we're used to hearing for "The Vox Sound".
I love Greenbacks, BTW. I've never tried a Blue, but I'd love to. Then again, I don't play the usual kind of music that's played through Alnicos. But I still think the Alnico Gold works remarkably well for what I play.
i agree with this. to me, the "vox" sound is ac30 through blues (or silvers if ya wanna get picky). greenbacks tend toward what i think is a marshally tone but a fine speaker for sure
ICTGoober
New member
Okay, I asked... He said it's pretty complicated, but there is very little difference between alnico magnets or ceramic magnets as far as what you can hear. Why? Because of flux density changes in the coil (and coil sizes differ). Heat affects the sound, too - especially on ceramic magnets. Alnico - heat doesn't affect the sound as much.
The big deal is the cab. Open back, or closed back? Speakers mounted side by side, one above the other, or at an angle makes a lot of difference. Feet on the bottom of the cab, or no feet? Wheels? Cabinet material and speaker mounting on the baffleboard (front or rear), affects the sound.
One thing that has no affect? Speaker companies make all this noise about using oxygen free copper wires in such and such a weave - it's all bullshit.
He suggested you watch a bunch of Johan Segeborn videos where he compares speakers - like 12 or 16, one at a time. Very informative stuff. Good luck!
