Alnico Or Ceramic?

G

GreatWallGuard

New member
Hi, really nice to join this forum at last. I have read a lot of threads here, as I am long interested at Duncan Pickups. I even happened to see Mr. Duncan himself in MusicExpo Shanghai this year. He is huge!
Well, I am just confused about which one is better for me, Alnico or Ceramic.
For me, heavier metal stlye is what I am fond of. I like metal sound like George Lynch. But I don't have a all-maple guitar. Hoping for nice advices from you guys.
PS: I am from China(PRC)
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

GreatWallGuard said:
Hi, really nice to join this forum at last. I have read a lot of threads here, as I am long interested at Duncan Pickups. I even happened to see Mr. Duncan himself in MusicExpo Shanghai this year. He is huge!
Well, I am just confused about which one is better for me, Alnico or Ceramic.
For me, heavier metal stlye is what I am fond of. I like metal sound like George Lynch. But I don't have a all-maple guitar. Hoping for nice advices from you guys.
PS: I am from China(PRC)
Click to expand...

What kind of guitar, amps, effects, etc are you using? What band or song tone are you going after? What tunings are you using?

This really helps to narrow down a choice and get you rocking a set of duncans sooner ;)
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

Oh, thank u, man. I love Lyncn Mob's Cry of the Brave. Do you hear it anyway. The solo tone is really singing or crying.
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

The gear you have, please?

SH-6 Distortion or Screamin' Demon is what he propably used, but his gear is not the same as yours, is it?
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

Iron Horse said:
The gear you have, please?

SH-6 Distortion or Screamin' Demon is what he propably used, but his gear is not the same as yours, is it?
Click to expand...

Quite right, man! Everybody knows that big stars don't use cheap things. Then could I get somekind of tone similar to his by using a JB instead of DD in a Les Paul through a Jcm2000 DSL 100? It seems that Lynch himself used Sh-6 earlier and SH-12 later. I know that Sh-6 is is ceramic and Sh-12 is alnico. I heard the sound samples from the duncan website, and I think that JB is quite similar to Demon, but DD is more powerful while with some ssssss, I mean , not so smooth as JB and Demon. I am still seeking for more info about these 3 pups. Anyway, They are all my most likely choices.

Thanks buddy!
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

I'd rather get a DD for LP for some brightness and balance, but remember that Lynch used maple-bodied strats by ESP.
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

Alnicos add color & character to tone, similar to the way tube amps do. There are many old threads you can look up to see what the six alnicos do to EQ & output (A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, & A8). Those of us who play classic rock, blues, and jazz prefer alnicos for high-quality tones they give. Alnicos are great clean, and excellent with overdrive.

Metal players who use alnicos like the brighter ones, like the JB, Screamin Demon. Ceramics are bright, sterile, & harsh, not so good clean, but great for metal, as they cut through distortion & effects better than alnicos (which have more mids and get muddy sooner). There are plenty of Duncan & Dimarzio high output ceramic HB's, and Gibson makes the 496R/500T combo.

What is best for you depends on the music you play & your style. If you have a bridge HB with an alnico magnet, swap it for a ceramic & see if you like the sound. Much cheaper & easier than constantly buying & selling new PU's.
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

GreatWallGuard said:
You mean that Lp's woods will help to smooth out the tonal characteristic?
Click to expand...

It's a bit difficult to get Lynch's tone through a Les Paul. My best bet would be a Duncan Distortion in your Les Paul like someone mentioned earlier. Again, I'm a big Lynch fan and I have the ESP LTD all maple M-1 Tiger with the Demon in it. It is a much different pickup than a JB as it has more crunch and the high's sound different as well as the harmonics. The Demon has also less output than the JB, so if you like his earlier tones from Lock and Key or any of his albums from the 80's, most likely you want a Distortion.

If you like his later stuff and his recent solo stuff, you'd probably want the Demon. Again, I like all the pickups I mentioned here, but they all give a different sound. I am also primarily a metal player and I used to like anything that's all ceramic as well as active pickups. I grown to figure out that I like the Alnico's better, because somehow the high's tend to sound thicker than the ceramic ones and I could dial in the rhythm tones to sound as heavy as ceramics and yet the cleans are better than the ceramic magnets pickups and actives. My 3 cents.
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

I've had the same kind of results. Ceramic is a little tighter, but Alnico pickups can be dialed in to be almost as tight with lots of gain. Some of the vintage PAFs are an exception though, like the Pearly Gates bridge which didn't handle gain very well. But the Distortion in a Les Paul is a very popular match, and a lot of folks like the Distortion's cleans, you may just have to work the volume knob a little.
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

I have gone the opposite way-I have gone away from the "warmth " (read mud) of alnico grown to like the percussiveness of the ceramic -I figure it's easier to tame brightness than to liven up muddiness-but whats really sad?
I prefer the tone of the cheap squier ceramic single coil pickups to the alnico ones I have tried ..
Just call me "El Cheapo Ceramico " por favor

However-dimarzios and some other ceramics do sound muddy (with the exception of the excellent Steve's Special) -Duncan does the job right on ceramics by unleashing the power while maintaining clarity
For singles.I think Fender does a good job
 
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Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

ubertwerp said:
I have gone the opposite way-I have gone away from the "warmth " (read mud) of alnico grown to like the percussiveness of the ceramic -I figure it's easier to tame brightness than to liven up muddiness-but whats really sad?
I prefer the tone of the cheap squier ceramic single coil pickups to the alnico ones I have tried ..
Just call me "El Cheapo Ceramico " por favor

However-dimarzios and some other ceramics do sound muddy (with the exception of the excellent Steve's Special) -Duncan does the job right on ceramics by unleashing the power while maintaining clarity
For singles.I think Fender does a good job
Click to expand...

Dude I have to toatally disagree with you. I have used Duncan, Dimarzio and Fender pickups for a long time and your statement is quite biased. I don't think any manufacturer makes the best pickups or does it better than the other. Dimarzios are not muddy. If you don't tweak your EQ and gain settings with the pickup, any pickup will sound muddy. I'll remind you that most people can cite at least several tunes off the top of their head in which Dimarzios were used that would upset your theory. Listen to any Paul Gilbert or Vinnie Moore album.

When it comes to alnico or ceramic, it really depends on what you are going for. Alnico adds more color to the tone and is usually very expressive and charactaristic. Ceramic is tighter, more focused, and higher output than alnico.

Sonically the difference can be heard probably half the time. I think alnico has a broader tonal range than ceramic. Most people don't care what the magnet is because that's not the only determining factor in the sound of a pickup.

No offense to the Duncan team, but you are not going to hear anything that really lets you know how a picku sounds from the Duncan website sound samples. You are better off searching the forum or youtube for sound clips.

I use alnico and ceramic. There are definitely sonic differences and I prefer alnico, but it's really up to the pickup overall. Alnico can be smooth and sweet or aggressive and rigid. Ceramic is no exception. For what you are looking for, I woudln't worry about the magnet but what is going to get you closer to the sound you are looking for. If you want to sound like George Lynch, then you need a Screamin Demon. On the same token, you don't have to have the same pickups to sound very similar to someone. That really depends on technique, effects, and amp settings.

By the way that is a cool avatar. I'm a big Shenker fan.
 
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Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

Ed - you're right -the way I worded that last statement did sound biased
I should have said "for me " Dimarzio sounds muddier -

I know I'm in the minority on the ceramic thing,but it was a bit of a breakthrough
for me to realize this ..(I guess Steve Vai must think this way too?)
I used to be a hardcore Dimarzio only user until I really ,really did A/B tests in the same guitar with wide band EQ diifferences on clean and dirty different amps ,different styles and evaluated each setup for
1)clarity
2)tone
3)sustain
4)harmonics
5)voicing
(I am using alder with rosewood btw)

I know it goes against all the theories ,but for my ears ,and preferences I still prefer
"cheapo" ceramic over "expensive " Alnico ..
Thought I must be missing something ,but I guess I my personal taste leans more toward the treble side than the bass side .(which might explain why I prefer JB over tone zone-)
I will say though that I have not heard Alnico II yet ,especially in a single coil ,and in no way would I ever discredit anything based on magnet type-
In the end it will always be subjective -some people will like strats (me) some will like
Les Pauls some will like other combinations ..
No right or wrong ,just differences ..

Having said that -what I a searching for is a cliche but true ..
I am looking for the tone that "inspires me to play" -Heavy tones that do this for me are
Randy Rhoads ,George Lynch ,Michael Schenker ,Gary Moore,Van Halen I and my all time fave -Wolf Hoffman of Accept .
Cleaner Inspirations are Stevie Ray Vaughn,Hendrix,Micahel Schenker Acoustic,Michael Hedges,Clapton,BB King and of course Yngwie playing a nylon string (intro to Disciples of h ell)

Current inspirations that make me smile when I play
Bridge-Duncan Custom
Neck -Fender Squier single coil

Future trials might include
Dimarzio
area 58
class of 55
X2N
Dactivator
Evolution 1 and 2

Duncan
ssl-1
Screamin Demon
Brobucker
PATB 2
PATB 3 (if i can find them )





One more thing -
I agree with you on the sound clips -I much prefer youtube -even better yet I listen to my own samples recorded on the same setups so I can go back in history and review
them (the playing is too amateurish for me to share lol)

I think maybe we should do a specific youtube channel for guitars, pickups,and amps ?
Benefit from each others experiences to make help make our own decisions before we fork over the cash?
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

Is it just me or does the ceramic pickups sound thin on the leads high treble side while the alnico's sound more full on the treble? The Dimarzio Evolutions for me have to be one of the cleanest ceramic's around and it's not just the type of magnet..its also the winding as well. Ceramic's sound more brutal on the rhythm power chords and riffs, but I manage to dial in my alnico to sound like that. I was a ceramic lover and only bought pickups that were ceramic, but I come to learn that I prefer the alnico for the reasons mentioned from my post earlier in this thread.
 
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Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

alashredder said:
Is it just me or does the ceramic pickups sound thin on the leads high treble side while the alnico's sound more full on the treble? I was a ceramic lover and only bought pickups that were ceramic, but I come to learn that I prefer the alnico for the reasons mentioned from my post earlier in this thread.
Click to expand...

Son, welcome to the camp that places tone quality at the top of the priority list (that would be us alnico boys). I've tried myself, but I just can't play ceramic magnet PU's; too bright, no character, and harsh clean. There's just nothing like an alnico.
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

blueman335 said:
Son, welcome to the camp that places tone quality at the top of the priority list (that would be us alnico boys). I've tried myself, but I just can't play ceramic magnet PU's; too bright, no character, and harsh clean. There's just nothing like an alnico.
Click to expand...

aah blueman335..so it isn't just me! hehe
 
Re: Alnico Or Ceramic?

ubertwerp said:
Ed - you're right -the way I worded that last statement did sound biased
I should have said "for me " Dimarzio sounds muddier -

I know I'm in the minority on the ceramic thing,but it was a bit of a breakthrough
for me to realize this ..(I guess Steve Vai must think this way too?)
I used to be a hardcore Dimarzio only user until I really ,really did A/B tests in the same guitar with wide band EQ diifferences on clean and dirty different amps ,different styles and evaluated each setup for
1)clarity
2)tone
3)sustain
4)harmonics
5)voicing
(I am using alder with rosewood btw)

I know it goes against all the theories ,but for my ears ,and preferences I still prefer
"cheapo" ceramic over "expensive " Alnico ..
Thought I must be missing something ,but I guess I my personal taste leans more toward the treble side than the bass side .(which might explain why I prefer JB over tone zone-)
I will say though that I have not heard Alnico II yet ,especially in a single coil ,and in no way would I ever discredit anything based on magnet type-
In the end it will always be subjective -some people will like strats (me) some will like
Les Pauls some will like other combinations ..
No right or wrong ,just differences ..

Having said that -what I a searching for is a cliche but true ..
I am looking for the tone that "inspires me to play" -Heavy tones that do this for me are
Randy Rhoads ,George Lynch ,Michael Schenker ,Gary Moore,Van Halen I and my all time fave -Wolf Hoffman of Accept .
Cleaner Inspirations are Stevie Ray Vaughn,Hendrix,Micahel Schenker Acoustic,Michael Hedges,Clapton,BB King and of course Yngwie playing a nylon string (intro to Disciples of h ell)

Current inspirations that make me smile when I play
Bridge-Duncan Custom
Neck -Fender Squier single coil

Future trials might include
Dimarzio
area 58
class of 55
X2N
Dactivator
Evolution 1 and 2

Duncan
ssl-1
Screamin Demon
Brobucker
PATB 2
PATB 3 (if i can find them )





One more thing -
I agree with you on the sound clips -I much prefer youtube -even better yet I listen to my own samples recorded on the same setups so I can go back in history and review
them (the playing is too amateurish for me to share lol)

I think maybe we should do a specific youtube channel for guitars, pickups,and amps ?
Benefit from each others experiences to make help make our own decisions before we fork over the cash?
Click to expand...

Your point is well stated. You brought up alnico 2 and I should have mentioned that my self. I am very partial to alnico 2 pickups. I really like the way they sound and it doesn't bother me that you can't really get high output with it because I don't use high output pickups.

Alnico 2 in my personal preference makes the best magnet material if you want a warm thick sound. I realized also that putting an a2 mag in a Les Paul pickup produces just about the thickest richest tone you can get. I'm not an LP guy, but I can appreciate that kind of tone.
 
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