Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

[txrsm]

Hello all,

I've been a frequenter of this site for some time now and am now looking for some insight! I have started delving into jazz guitar tone and for that I use an Epi Dot Studio (half-rounds) with Alnico Pro II N/B into a Roland Cube 30. Think your nice round and hollow Larry Carlton neck tones.

I am able to easily dial in that "round hollow" and "woody" jazz tone out of my bridge but am having trouble attaining similar tonal qualities from the Neck position. The Bridge position and Neck-Bridge can dial in quite nicely but the Neck only position just will not play nice.

Any advisement from fellow semi-hollow or SD APII users would be greatly appreciated.

I've toyed with the idea of dropping a Gibson Classic 57 in the neck position but the jury is still out on that one.

Both the APII and the Gibson Classic 57 use Alnico II so I don't think getting a new pickup all together would solve the tonal issue.

thanks, rich

 

[blueman335]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

I'm a big fan of semi-hollows. To get the tones I wanted from my A2P neck, I raised the pole pieces and lowered the bass side of the PU. Gave me more treble and clarity, better tone. See what it does for your guitar.

Your alternative is hardly limited to a '57 Classic which gets mixed reactions here. It tends to be dark and can be prone to mud in the neck slot. To fix that some of us put an A5 magnet in it, then it sounds good.

If you still can't get the A2PN to sound the way you want, a mag swap may work there too (A3, A4, or UOA5). If you want to try another PU, a Seth or PG would be excellent choices. Both also have A2 magents but are wound differently than Gibsons, and are more highly regarded here than '57's. You could always go the A5 route with a '59 or a Jazz. They have a brighter high-end and scooped mids.

 

[txrsm]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

First off thanks for the speedy reply Bluesman335!

So by raising the pole pieces, you're kind of unbalancing the humbucker right? In theory of course So after lowering the bass side, are you raising the pole pieces to match the next radius or is it better to raise the poles prior to dropping the bass side? Just curious but oh wouldn't that be an easy and inexpensive solution

"brighter high-end and scooped mids"

That's a good description. When I was asking another fellow guitarist the same question, he looked at me like I had a worms coming out of my ears LOL. His reply was "Woody and hollow?!" "Uhhh just buy another guitar that sounds like you want it to?" LOL Not the brightest tool in the shed

So do you think the little Roland Cube 30 is a nice compliment to the semi hollow? I've been out of the game for some time and upon my return, my interest has changes from Classic Rock and Blues to Jazz!! Of course I am definitely a jazz novice and just absorbing the techniques and tones.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

Right, raising the pole pieces unbalances the coils, favoring one of them slightly, giving more treble and clarity. Lowering the bass side (I do it after raising the pole pieces) softens the low end and reduces a little of the volume of the low strings. Many times little adjustments are all that's needed.

I have a Roland Cube 30 (1x10), and would recommend a better amp. I use mine just for noodling at home or testing guitars I rewire, but I'd never use it at a gig. Roland used to make Blues Cubes, which had much better tone quality (but no amp modeling, which is why they were discontinued). I use my Blues Cube 60 on stage (1x12), and get compliments all the time on my tones. Players assume it's a tube amp. It sounds much richer and fuller than a current Cube models. You ought to keep an eye out for someone selling one.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

Personally I like the 57 classics in a semi hollow guitar. In a LP I don't think they sound as good. I don't know if I would want to pair a 57 classic with a Duncan. 2 different brands can create issues. I know people do it all the time, changing the neck pickup as Blueman suggested may be a better option if adjusting the pole pieces doesn't solve your problem. The Pearly Gates paired with an AII would be a great setup. Before you start soldering and rewiring everything maybe try plugging into a better amp. Unfortunately this is going to cost you more then a pickup swap. Plug into a Deluxe Reverb and your tone will be heavenly! So now you go from a $50 to 75$ pickup swap to an $800 amp. Gas strikes again!!!

BTW welcome to the forum!

 

[txrsm]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

Thanks for the welcome BlueDave...i've been an avid reader since 2005 but I've finally found my voice LOL

You don't have to tell me about GAS!!! It seems like a never ending arduous mission. And just when you think you've found the answer...bleh! Square one again.

I've been eyeing the BC-60 and the Deluxe ironically enough. The 30 I found at a pawn shop for $80 and thought I'd jump on it. Since starting up again...I've needed something of good quality with a headphone jack. That basically ruled out most every tube amp. I tried a few higher end modeling amps but I come from using an original 68 Fender Super Reverb back when I was in the music scene. RIP MOJO...had to sell him after becoming a father Bittersweet but well worth it - my son is picking up the guitar at 2.5yrs old!! YEAH!

Back to the topic at hand...nothing would give me more pleasure than to get me a nice tube amp that has some headroom but is still portable but the reality of it is I can't justify the high cost at this time. D A M N you GAS!! I will be looking at upgrading potentially to the Roland Cube 60 when I find one locally...shipping is a bear!

Thank for allt he information.

 

[txrsm]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

I even toyed with the idea of getting a Fender Mustang III combo but again...the jury is still out on that one. I'm a plug and player and prefer simplicity in layout as I hope to eventually use it in a live environment.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

I don't know if I would want to pair a 57 classic with a Duncan. 2 different brands can create issues.

I do it all the time. I have a Dot Deluxe with a '57 Classic bridge (with an RC A2) paired with a Phat CatN (A5/A4). Works great. I've got a lot of PU's, pair up different brands and never have a problem. Neck and bridge PU's don't need to have the same magnets or pot values either. All that matters is getting PU's that work well with your wood and your rig, and the brand isn't really a factor. Geez, look at how many kinds of PU's Duncan and DMz make.

 

[txrsm]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

Blueman335...you my friend are a genius! I raised to poles and dropped the bass side and I started to hear the hollow woodiness tone I was asking about!!! Man...do you know how much time I've spent tweaking amps and the guts!!! ALOT! and all this time it was in those 6 little pole pieces!. Thank you so much for your advice!

 

[Aceman]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

What model are you using on the Cube?

 

[txrsm]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

Roland cube 30...not the newer XL series.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

Blueman335...you my friend are a genius! I raised to poles and dropped the bass side and I started to hear the hollow woodiness tone I was asking about!!! Man...do you know how much time I've spent tweaking amps and the guts!!! ALOT! and all this time it was in those 6 little pole pieces!. Thank you so much for your advice!

im really glad bm fixed you up, cos gibson 57s are definitely a step backwards when compared to a2H pups.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

Blueman335...you my friend are a genius! I raised to poles and dropped the bass side and I started to hear the hollow woodiness tone I was asking about!!! Man...do you know how much time I've spent tweaking amps and the guts!!! ALOT! and all this time it was in those 6 little pole pieces!. Thank you so much for your advice!

I've learned many things by trial and error with my guitars and PU's, and have also learned a lot from this forum. I pass all of that on to anyone that I think can use it. Glad to help you out.

First step in a tone quest is to adjust the set up; start simple and cheap, then work your way up to replacing parts. Most tone solutions don't cost much. I met a guy at a jam a few years ago, he brought a Gibson 335 and said it was really weak-sounding. I looked at it. The PU's were about an inch under the strings! No wonder.

 

[symptom]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

I've learned many things by trial and error with my guitars and PU's, and have also learned a lot from this forum. I pass all of that on to anyone that I think can use it. Glad to help you out.

First step in a tone quest is to adjust the set up; start simple and cheap, then work your way up to replacing parts. Most tone solutions don't cost much. I met a guy at a jam a few years ago, he brought a Gibson 335 and said it was really weak-sounding. I looked at it. The PU's were about an inch under the strings! No wonder.

I'd like to know how close to the strings do you set your pickups? It doesn't have to be an exact number, just an idea (I must convert inches do cm anyway)

 

[blueman335]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

I'd like to know how close to the strings do you set your pickups? It doesn't have to be an exact number, just an idea (I must convert inches do cm anyway)

Hold the strings down at the highest fret, they should be around 1/8" from the pole pieces, and then raise of lower the PU slightly depending on the tone and output you get. Most guys will have the high strings a little closer than the low strings, and the bridge a little closer than the neck. Your mileage may vary. With a strong magnet (A8, ceramic) be careful not to get the strings too close to the PU, to avoid string-pull, which reduces sustain. With a weaker magnet, like an A2 or A3, there's not much pull.

 

[symptom]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

Hold the strings down at the highest fret, they should be around 1/8" from the pole pieces, and then raise of lower the PU slightly depending on the tone and output you get. Most guys will have the high strings a little closer than the low strings, and the bridge a little closer than the neck. Your mileage may vary. With a strong magnet (A8, ceramic) be careful not to get the strings too close to the PU, to avoid string-pull, which reduces sustain. With a weaker magnet, like an A2 or A3, there's not much pull.

My neck pickup is significantly far away from the strings when compared to the bridge pickup. If I raise the neck pickup, it gets a lot louder than the bridge...

 

[blueman335]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

My neck pickup is significantly far away from the strings when compared to the bridge pickup. If I raise the neck pickup, it gets a lot louder than the bridge...

How high is the bridge PU? I usually set mine pretty close to the strings. You have to decide what height each PU has to be to get the tones and volumes you want.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

If you are not gigging & you need something that can be quiet(like headphone playing) Why not consider a Pod? They sound very good, certainly not as good as a tube amp, but under the circumstances they are not bad.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

As I said I have a set of the 57 classics in my 359 & I LOVE them in this guitar, but I have played Les Pauls with them and they were bland.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Alnico Pro II Neck in Epi Dot Studio question

As I said I have a set of the 57 classics in my 359 & I LOVE them in this guitar, but I have played Les Pauls with them and they were bland.

+1. I had a pair of '57's in an LP and they did not sound very good; the neck was too dark and muffled, and the bridge had a funky rounded tone, no matter how much treble I added at the amp, I couldn't get any cut or bite from it. I sold them and put in a pair of PG's, which sound much better. I put an A2P pair in another LP, and they sound even better than the PG's. Seymour knows how to wind an A2 PAF.