Amp ohm and attenuator damage

Jarrodpimentals

New member
Hello. I got a 50w evh amp recently with cab but I’ve been playing through my Marshall cab instead since it’s broken in. Yesterday I decided to start breaking in the new cab. Marshall is 8ohm EVH cab is 16ohm. No problem amp has a switch for either, but I left my 8ohm attenuator plugged in(in the off position) I ran the amp and cab for an hour or so. When I realized what I had done, I shut it down and unplugged the attenuator and realized I was still losing about 10db with it through the off attenuator. So it’s possible I did damage to the amp I guess. I’m wondering what you guys think? I played it a little today and nothing odd but I’m wondering if I could/should send it in for repair at my local shop to prevent a full melt down.
 
Are you measuring decibels with a meter ?
Just curious.
id say plug in one amp / one cab / one guitar and see if everything works.
If it does then get rid of everything else and consider yourself lucky.
To be honest an attenuator with 2 cabs makes no practical sense.
 
My understanding is you might have just shortened the life of some components by running a 16ohm amp into an 8ohm load for a little while, but if it didn't completely fail, you'll probably be able to just keep going as long as you don't do that again.

But if you're worried and can afford a service call, it wouldn't hurt to have a tech measure the components and circuit and check how they are performing, just to make sure there isn't any indication of an imminent failure.
 
IME tube amps are pretty forgiving and I think it's unlikely that you've done any real damage.
I've run 8 Ohm outputs into 16 Ohm cabs for years of heavy gigging without any problems.
The opposite mismatch might be more stressful however - I don't recommend running a 4 Ohm cab off a 16Ohm output, for instance.

I think it's likely that even with the attenuation off, the impedance matching part of your attenuator is still active.
The slight volume drop you're hearing might simply be due to the impedance.
When I used to run my 16 Ohm Marshall cab from an 8 Ohm output of my Boogie, I did it to reduce the volume a bit.

I suggest trying your rig with the attenuator plugged in but turned off, then trying again with the amp plugged straight into the cab.
There might be a difference. Then again, there might not. But at least you'll know if your attenuator is full bypass.
 
If you hurt anything you would instantly know it. Even Dave Freidman said on his podcast that you could run a tube amp for awhile without anything for load, granted the volume wasn't turned up on the head for a long time. It would eventually overheat but would take awhile, and if the volume was turned down it is unlikely to build much heat for awhile.
 
Ok. To be clear it was only the 1 amp and the 1 cab. 16ohm out of the amp into an 8ohm attenuator and then into the 16ohm cab. Everything sounds normal today so I’m guessing it’s fine but I don’t want to find out in a month the amp catches on fire or something.
 
I think 16ohm amp into 8ohm attenuator, the amp would have been trying to open up, but you weren't hearing it, because...
...8ohm attenuator into 16ohm cab, that lowered your volume.
I don't think it hurt the amp any more than running it wide open on 11 with a proper 4x12 would
 
I think 16ohm amp into 8ohm attenuator, the amp would have been trying to open up, but you weren't hearing it, because...
...8ohm attenuator into 16ohm cab, that lowered your volume.
I don't think it hurt the amp any more than running it wide open on 11 with a proper 4x12 would
Running it wide open into a 4x12 would hurt you far more than it would the amp.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
 
If you hurt anything you would instantly know it. Even Dave Freidman said on his podcast that you could run a tube amp for awhile without anything for load, granted the volume wasn't turned up on the head for a long time. It would eventually overheat but would take awhile, and if the volume was turned down it is unlikely to build much heat for awhile.

Friedman would tell you "for best results always correctly match impedance."
 
Friedman would tell you "for best results always correctly match impedance."

Yes of course he would, but in this case he was answering a question about accidentally having the amp running for awhile when the owner had forgotten that he had unplugged the cab for whatever reason. It was very close to the OP's question but more extreme.
 
A mismatch is a mismatch regardless of volume.
Mesa Boogie amps can tolerate certain mismatches because their output transformers are spec'd for it by Randall Smith.
EVH amps are made in Mexico or Indonesia and are not on par with Mesa Engineering.
 
Last edited:
No, current = volume, current is what would do damage. You can leave an amp on for a week without a speaker plugged in as long as you have the volume on zero.

Feel free to ask Dave.
 
No, current = volume, current is what would do damage. You can leave an amp on for a week without a speaker plugged in as long as you have the volume on zero.

Feel free to ask Dave.

Dave Friedman and i are friends have chatted many times and he's done work for me.
So lemme get this starlight you're actually telling a noob [OP] who has just about fried his amp by doing the wrong thing that David Friedman of all people [in a 3rd party sense] is telling him to hook up his amp with no speaker load and leave it on for days ?
My how internet amp forums have gone down the sheeter. :confused:

7246f3a41543221687aa8a6f8f0def59.png
 
I ran my Laney Ironheart with the speakers unplugged accidentally when biasing tubes, at least 2 times, for about 2 minutes before realizing something was wrong. It was fine no smoke no burning odor etc.

Gesendet von meinem ASUS_X00RD mit Tapatalk
 
Dave Friedman and i are friends have chatted many times and he's done work for me.
So lemme get this starlight you're actually telling a noob [OP] who has just about fried his amp by doing the wrong thing that David Friedman of all people [in a 3rd party sense] is telling him to hook up his amp with no speaker load and leave it on for days ?
My how internet amp forums have gone down the sheeter. :confused:

No, I'm not telling him to do anything. I'm saying it probably didn't do any damage since it was run at low volume therefore, minimal current passed through the transformers and the tubes were not really pushed. You were saying the sky was falling, I was just saying he was fine from what he had done.

ALWAYS MATCH IMPEDANCES!!! But, if you screw up occasionally, it's probably not the end of the world.
 
No, I'm not telling him to do anything. I'm saying it probably didn't do any damage since it was run at low volume therefore, minimal current passed through the transformers and the tubes were not really pushed. You were saying the sky was falling, I was just saying he was fine from what he had done.

ALWAYS MATCH IMPEDANCES!!! But, if you screw up occasionally, it's probably not the end of the world.
Just checking lol. Yes we've all had close calls.
 
The myth of having the impedance selector matching your speaker cab exactly is an old wives tale. Let me preface that by saying it is advisable to match the impedance of your speaker cab to the selector or output of the amp, but it is not necessarily imperative. Why though?

The output tubes have a range of load impedance in which they are designed to work within. It is broader than you would think. The transformer presents to the tubes a " primary impedance " ( load ) that is selected in order to make the amp operate a certain way. You can go lower in impedance in order to coax more output with higher headroom, or you can go with a higher primary impedance and have lower output with less headroom. The issue is the secondary impedance. The load ACTUALLY reflected onto the output tubes is the combination of the speaker's impedance combined with the output transformer. If you connect an 8ohm speaker to the 16ohm tap, the reflected load to the tubes is also cut in half. if you place a 16ohm speaker onto the 8ohm tap, the impedance reflected to the tubes is doubled.

So how much of a mismatch is bad? In my experience, a mismatch of one-half or double is 100% OK. I.E. you can connect an 8ohm speaker to either a 4 ohm or a 16ohm tap. You can connect a 16ohm speaker to the 8ohm tap, or you can connect a 4ohm speaker to the 8ohm tap. This amount of difference will never not more than double or halve the reflected load presented to the output tubes and would be within the acceptable range any given tube will operate within. If you venture beyond that 1/2 or X2 mismatch, then you get into the danger zone.

What is the effect on sound and output? When you reduce the primary impedance reflected onto an output tube, it is more easily able to drive that load ( it doesn't load down the tubes as much ), giving a boost in output and clean headroom. The downside is a tonal shift that tends to be brighter. less bassy and more direct or abrupt sounding ( less compressed ). Conversely, if you present a higher load to the output tubes, it reduces output and lowers headroom ( more load presented to the tubes to drive ), with a tonal shift that is darker, more bassy, compressed, and more distorted ( because of the lower headroom ). The selection of the primary impedance of the output transformer is selected in order to enhance the designer's objective goals. Do they want a louder, brighter, and less distorted output, or do they want a darker, quieter, and more distorted output?

You can shift the impedance selector or speaker load 1 selection either way to acquire a similar result. If you only have a 16ohm cab and you want to darken the amp up a little and acquire a little less headroom and output, you can put the speaker into the amp's 8ohm tap ( or speaker selector ). This is totally fine to do. Having an 8ohm cab offers you the largest number of options since you can shift it 1 generation high or low to acquire a tonal outcome.

As for running an amp with NO LOAD..... 100% not advisable for any amount of time. You may get away with it for a moment or perhaps longer, but there is NEVER any guarantee that the OT or the output tubes will survive if you start playing at appreciable levels with no load connected. Some amps have a small dummy load in them to protect them in such an instance, but there are not many that I know of that will tolerate such a situation for very long even if there is some level of protection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LLL
Back
Top