Amps in series - any issues?

[Plessure]

I figure i like both my Peavey Rage 158 and my Laney AOR combo, but combining them may be even better. Is it plug-and-play as if the Rage 158 was a pedal or do i need to be concerned about input/output impedances, explosions and fire?

 

[Jacew]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

I figure i like both my Peavey Rage 158 and my Laney AOR combo, but combining them may be even better. Is it plug-and-play as if the Rage 158 was a pedal or do i need to be concerned about input/output impedances, explosions and fire?

No. You need load box with attenuator (eg. Line out) in place of a speaker for first amp.

I have played using mustang modeler in front of TT with diy load box. Worked fine. But even a cheap mini-pedal board is much better tonewise.

If Rage has headphone out, you can plug cable from there to other amps input BUT:

1) Headphone out is stereo, amp input is mono:

Use Stereo -> 2x Mono cable so that stereo end is in headphone out and other mono end goes to amp. Other end can be left unplugged (or pulgged other amp). You can also use device that sums stereo to mono if you have such.

Do not use just stereo or mono cable: It'll short-circuit the output.

2) Start with volume at 0 in first amp, then slowly raise it; to minimize damage to your rig or your ears if things don't go right.

EDIT: of course if either amp has line out, use that instead of headphone out.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

^ That's true.

However it is most likely going to sound like ass that way. Split the signal and run both together, don't run pre-amp into pre-amp.

 

[VinceT]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

Definitely a load box on the first amp’s speaker out.

There is an alternative approach if there is an FX loop in the first amp:

Guitar to Amp 1 preamp
Amp 1 FX send to Splitter box
First side of splitter to Amp 1 FX return
Second side of splitter to Amp 2*

*This is the basic approach to a wet-dry rig (in this case, Amp 2 would have all the reverbs, delays, modulation, etc.) You’d have to check levels if you put the send into the preamp of Amp 2 - particularly if Amp 1 is cranked - but into Amp 2 return it’d be fine (though you’d lose preamp shaping).

That Pedal Show did an episode with Andy Timmons where he talks about how he uses this approach to Wet-Dry in his live rig.

One other thing to note is that any time you use two amps, be prepared for ground loops (HUM), so you’ll likely need a splitter or pedal with isolation built in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Plessure]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

^ That's true.

However it is most likely going to sound like ass that way. Split the signal and run both together, don't run pre-amp into pre-amp.

Why would it sound like **** to give that awesome gnarly transistor distortion a bit of tube velvet cream? Running them in parallel could be good too, but not what i'm after. I know my "tone" even though i may come off as a moron.

No. You need load box with attenuator (eg. Line out) in place of a speaker for first amp.

I have played using mustang modeler in front of TT with diy load box. Worked fine. But even a cheap mini-pedal board is much better tonewise.

If Rage has headphone out, you can plug cable from there to other amps input BUT:

1) Headphone out is stereo, amp input is mono:

Use Stereo -> 2x Mono cable so that stereo end is in headphone out and other mono end goes to amp. Other end can be left unplugged (or pulgged other amp). You can also use device that sums stereo to mono if you have such.

Do not use just stereo or mono cable: It'll short-circuit the output.

2) Start with volume at 0 in first amp, then slowly raise it; to minimize damage to your rig or your ears if things don't go right.

EDIT: of course if either amp has line out, use that instead of headphone out.

Of course this little cheap thing has a headphone out! I wouldn't use the speaker output Should've clarified this.

So, there should be no issues except maybe excess volume/power?

 

[dystrust]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

Of course this little cheap thing has a headphone out! I wouldn't use the speaker output Should've clarified this.

So, there should be no issues except maybe excess volume/power?

You could absolutely use the Rage like a distortion pedal via the headphone out.

1) Headphone out is stereo, amp input is mono:

Use Stereo -> 2x Mono cable so that stereo end is in headphone out and other mono end goes to amp. Other end can be left unplugged (or pulgged other amp). You can also use device that sums stereo to mono if you have such.

Do not use just stereo or mono cable: It'll short-circuit the output.

This is wrong. You can absolutely plug a guitar cable into the headphone output and the side of the signal that you're not using will simply be shorted to ground with no harm done.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

Why would it sound like **** to give that awesome gnarly transistor distortion a bit of tube velvet cream? Running them in parallel could be good too, but not what i'm after. I know my "tone" even though i may come off as a moron.

Because running pre-amp into pre-amp generally sounds bad....tried it a few times. Try it out yourself. Now if you're running the rage into the POWER section of the AOR that's a different story, but I still don't think it will sound as good.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

Because running pre-amp into pre-amp generally sounds bad....tried it a few times. Try it out yourself. Now if you're running the rage into the POWER section of the AOR that's a different story, but I still don't think it will sound as good.

What's the big difference between the distortion preamp section of a transistor amp and a distortion pedal? Aren't both preamps?

Will try as soon as i got both amps in the same place.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

Because running pre-amp into pre-amp generally sounds bad....tried it a few times. Try it out yourself. Now if you're running the rage into the POWER section of the AOR that's a different story, but I still don't think it will sound as good.

A lot of it depends on the second amp you're using. I honestly have my doubts about a Laney AOR because it may have too much preamp gain and simply turn the sound into mush. Something like a Fender Bassman or NMV Marshall can sound really cool when pre-amped with the headphone output of a SS amp. I've actually heard one of those belt clip Marshalls run into a blackface Bassman, and it sounded like a cool gnarly distortion pedal.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

What's the big difference between the distortion preamp section of a transistor amp and a distortion pedal? Aren't both preamps?

Will try as soon as i got both amps in the same place.

No they are not...similar but not the same. Of course depending how you're hooking it up you can alleviate some of this. Like I said, try it out, if you like it that's great, but in my experience it don't work to well. the only thing that did was going pre into power section of another one.

Your amp's input is expecting instrument level, pre-amps generally output at line level for instance. You will probably find you won't be turning up the gain on the laney very much.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

No they are not...similar but not the same. Of course depending how you're hooking it up you can alleviate some of this. Like I said, try it out, if you like it that's great, but in my experience it don't work to well. the only thing that did was going pre into power section of another one.

Your amp's input is expecting instrument level, pre-amps generally output at line level for instance. You will probably find you won't be turning up the gain on the laney very much.

That's alright, i don't look at the knobs a lot when playing anyways

 

[Plessure]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

Now i've tried it. Seemed to work out fine. The headphone out is in the same ballpark as instrument level in the volume ranges i use here in my apartment. Biggest conclusion though was: Damn i missed my tube amp So while the series thing was all good, the tube alone still sounds best. That distortion is hard to improve. Didn't like the Blues Driver before it much either. It just responds so dynamically. Maybe a solid state distortion in the effects loop could work. I should try the Rage 158 there too. Or simply running effects send into Rage 158 and using that one's speaker. But it seems the awesome tube power is all i really need for distortion.

Oh and to be fair, i should also try running them parallel like the guy said above.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

This is wrong. You can absolutely plug a guitar cable into the headphone output and the side of the signal that you're not using will simply be shorted to ground with no harm done.

You're probably right. I don't know how exactly heaphone out is designed in amps. I was just thinking if it's designed like normal output stage, mono plug would short circuit the second channel, causing damage.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

You're probably right. I don't know how exactly heaphone out is designed in amps. I was just thinking if it's designed like normal output stage, mono plug would short circuit the second channel, causing damage.

It says in the manual: "A monaural headset may be used, but is not recommended". I figure the same goes for any monaural recipient. Didn't seem to hurt my Laney AOR. It's now back to full glory after a few weeks of idle time

 

[dystrust]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

You're probably right. I don't know how exactly heaphone out is designed in amps. I was just thinking if it's designed like normal output stage, mono plug would short circuit the second channel, causing damage.

It might cause damage if you had the volume really high, but that would be far too much signal to run into another amp.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Amps in series - any issues?

Now i've tried it. Seemed to work out fine. The headphone out is in the same ballpark as instrument level in the volume ranges i use here in my apartment. Biggest conclusion though was: Damn i missed my tube amp So while the series thing was all good, the tube alone still sounds best. That distortion is hard to improve. Didn't like the Blues Driver before it much either. It just responds so dynamically. Maybe a solid state distortion in the effects loop could work. I should try the Rage 158 there too. Or simply running effects send into Rage 158 and using that one's speaker. But it seems the awesome tube power is all i really need for distortion.

Oh and to be fair, i should also try running them parallel like the guy said above.

Yep, That was my conclusion with mustang too. There was very good and useful tones available, but the response was really stiff, and I lost all dynamics.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the setup for recording though, if there's distinctive tone I want.