Another "This" versus "That" Thread

[Maz]

I'm trying to get some unbiased information here, so bear with me. :nervous:

For the past few months I've been vigorously looking at and playing guitars, and almost everyday finding a new guitar and saying "I WANT THAT!" I'm trying to hold my need for a new guitar down so I can gain some money to get a higher end guitar instead of say, an Ibanez Premium, an LTD Deluxe, or a Jackson Pro Series.

So I've narrowed my search down to three companies I would actually want to purchase from, ESP, Jackson, and Ibanez.

So here's the information I'm looking for, how do the three companies compare, Jackson USA Select, ESP Standard Series, and Ibanez Prestige. 3 guitars, Jackson SL2HT, ESP Horizon NT-II, and an Ibanez Prestige RG3570Z. Those 3 guitars have been the guitars I keep going back on for my "final decision."

A big question as well is, ESP vs LTD, what am I getting out of that extra ~$800 besides made by ESP's best luthiers, amazing quality wood, and better quality hardware. As of right now I'm really considering the ESP, I took my LTD out of the closet the other today, and set it up to be sold, and after playing for awhile I almost forgot how good the quality is for a guitar made in China from a lower end series.

I'm not asking for my new guitar to be picked out for me, I'm looking for some unbiased information on the companies, like wood quality, hardware quality/etc

 

[youngthrasher9]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

I'm trying to get some unbiased information here, so bear with me. :nervous:

For the past few months I've been vigorously looking at and playing guitars, and almost everyday finding a new guitar and saying "I WANT THAT!" I'm trying to hold my need for a new guitar down so I can gain some money to get a higher end guitar instead of say, an Ibanez Premium, an LTD Deluxe, or a Jackson Pro Series.

So I've narrowed my search down to three companies I would actually want to purchase from, ESP, Jackson, and Ibanez.

So here's the information I'm looking for, how do the three companies compare, Jackson USA Select, ESP Standard Series, and Ibanez Prestige. 3 guitars, Jackson SL2HT, ESP Horizon NT-II, and an Ibanez Prestige RG3570Z. Those 3 guitars have been the guitars I keep going back on for my "final decision."

A big question as well is, ESP vs LTD, what am I getting out of that extra ~$800 besides made by ESP's best luthiers, amazing quality wood, and better quality hardware. As of right now I'm really considering the ESP, I took my LTD out of the closet the other today, and set it up to be sold, and after playing for awhile I almost forgot how good the quality is for a guitar made in China from a lower end series.

I'm not asking for my new guitar to be picked out for me, I'm looking for some unbiased information on the companies, like wood quality, hardware quality/etc

I am going to assume that the finish quality is also better. IE it will sound better.

 

[Maz]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

It might be, my LTD M-300FM is from their Chinese factory, which is basically the low of the low LTDs, and the See-Thru Black Cherry on the Flamed Maples is astonishing. I'm not as worried about the finish of the guitar though, I usually like most finishes I see. I'm a lot more concerned with wood quality and hardware.

 

[TheLivingDead]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

Imma flip it on ya and ask what amp you're rockin'.

I'm always trying to save people from making that same mistake(s) I've made.

And that would be getting a bunch of rad ass guitars and neglecting the fact that a really nice amp would fulfill many more tonal needs.

 

[Maz]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

Imma flip it on ya and ask what amp you're rockin'.

I'm always trying to save people from making that same mistake(s) I've made.

And that would be getting a bunch of rad ass guitars and neglecting the fact that a really nice amp would fulfill many more tonal needs.

As of right now I'm running a Vox VT120+ and a Line 6 Spider III. Although, I have a separate "bank" that I'm using to save for a Marshall MA100H and MA412 Full stack and a pedal board. I'm trying to take care of my guitar situation first, because I won't be able to look at a nice looking Marshal Stack and only have an Epi SG to play through it. I'm tired of taking a screw driver to the back of my guitar when I want to mess with the tuning of the guitar, reason why I want the hardtail versions of these guitars, or with the Ibanez, the knob in the back to adjust tension.


It's not as much as tone as it is my need for a guitar that I can set up in 5 minutes. I took my Epiphone SG, removed the humbucker covers, took the strings off, put a heavier gauge on, and put everything back in. The whole process took me 30 minutes including tuning. Doing that with a Floyd would have caused me to lose patience and end up procrastinating with xbox. :boggled:


Hopefully Tj Maxx accepts my application :approve:




(Now the almost being 16 factor comes in)

 

[TheLivingDead]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

I gotcha.

As for the ESP vs LTD question; I wish I could help ya. I have very little experience with either brand. But in general I'd say to go with a higher end LTD or maybe lower end ESP to avoid having more common cheapo issues.

Good luck!

 

[CTN]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

what kinda guitar you playing right now?

 

[Maz]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

what kinda guitar you playing right now?

Was using an Epi SG G-400 until I set my LTD M300FM back up, but it's being sold for some money towards a new guitar.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

All those higher end american/japanese models play and sound great. I'm a big fan of Ibanez Prestige and I almost bought one when I was your age. I had played a few RG neck thru's that my friends' owned and I was always impressed. When it came time to tune or intonate, I found out that the last thing I wanted was a floyd rose guitar.

I was at the brink of throwing down the money for an RG and blocking the floyd, but I decided to hold out. I got a job at the princeton review, made 2000 bucks that summer, turned out that I started listening to completely different music, became a huge Allman Bros/Phish/Deadhead fan, got my Am Dlx strat for 900 with case and a Fender Deluxe Reverb instead of an RG1570 and a JCM800 stack.

Now I'm 24 and I play mostly jazz and fusion, my strat still kills for the genre and I get props on my tone often. If I was 15 again, I would probably have saved the money for longer, practiced more and bought a Heritage H570 and built a Vibroverb clone. Remember your tastes in music will change, especially as a developing player, get a guitar that will account for that. Agile wouldn't be a bad choice for a killer stoptail with great fretwork.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

I think it would be hard to go wrong with a USA Jackson, an ESP, or a high-end Japanese Ibanez. I own an SL2HT, a JEM, and some other Japanese RG-series, plus I've played some ESPs over the years.

I'll focus on the Jackson, since it's the one in your pool that I actually own. The hardware is Gotoh. The TOM bridge and tuners are nothing fancy, but they seem quite solid and serviceable. I dropped a TonePros bridge onto mine and didn't notice any real tonal changes one way or the other. (The TonePros bridge that fits an Epiphone Les Paul will also fit the SL2HT.)

The neck wood is quarter-sawn maple, which I think helps with that classic metal crunch. Ebony fretboard, apparently not dyed super-black but left natural, which is kind of nice on mine, as it's a cherry sunburst. It's really light and comfortable to play. Sometimes it can be a pain to have the volume knob so close to the strings, though some players aren't bothered by it. The control cavity cover is anodized aluminum, which I thought was a nice touch.

I love the fret job on the thing. The fret ends go out over top of the binding, which gives you plenty of fret to work with. The frets are nicely crowned, smooth as glass, and rounded off at the ends -- comfy!

One QC issue I've seen on these USA Select Soloists is that sometimes the strings aren't centered well on the neck -- almost like the bridge is off to one side just enough to put either the bass or treble E string too close to the edge of the fretboard. Aside from this, I don't recall seeing quality issues on these guitars.

 

[Maz]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

All those higher end american/japanese models play and sound great. I'm a big fan of Ibanez Prestige and I almost bought one when I was your age. I had played a few RG neck thru's that my friends' owned and I was always impressed. When it came time to tune or intonate, I found out that the last thing I wanted was a floyd rose guitar.

I was at the brink of throwing down the money for an RG and blocking the floyd, but I decided to hold out. I got a job at the princeton review, made 2000 bucks that summer, turned out that I started listening to completely different music, became a huge Allman Bros/Phish/Deadhead fan, got my Am Dlx strat for 900 with case and a Fender Deluxe Reverb instead of an RG1570 and a JCM800 stack.

Now I'm 24 and I play mostly jazz and fusion, my strat still kills for the genre and I get props on my tone often. If I was 15 again, I would probably have saved the money for longer, practiced more and bought a Heritage H570 and built a Vibroverb clone. Remember your tastes in music will change, especially as a developing player, get a guitar that will account for that. Agile wouldn't be a bad choice for a killer stoptail with great fretwork.

That's my reasoning for looking into humbucker routed 24 fret strat type guitars. If my musical taste moves from metal/jazz, at least I have a guitar that works. The ESP has a really nice Dark Brown burst on its quilted maple, great looking guitar. And with the amp I'll get either way, I LOVE the cleans I get from Marshals, I have a Marshall MG30FX that's a total piece of junk except for its clean channel, and I love it, it's sort of like Metallica's clean tone

I think it would be hard to go wrong with a USA Jackson, an ESP, or a high-end Japanese Ibanez. I own an SL2HT, a JEM, and some other Japanese RG-series, plus I've played some ESPs over the years.

I'll focus on the Jackson, since it's the one in your pool that I actually own. The hardware is Gotoh. The TOM bridge and tuners are nothing fancy, but they seem quite solid and serviceable. I dropped a TonePros bridge onto mine and didn't notice any real tonal changes one way or the other. (The TonePros bridge that fits an Epiphone Les Paul will also fit the SL2HT.)

The neck wood is quarter-sawn maple, which I think helps with that classic metal crunch. Ebony fretboard, apparently not died super-black but left natural, which is kind of nice on mine, as it's a cherry sunburst. It's really light and comfortable to play. Sometimes it can be a pain to have the volume knob so close to the strings, though some players aren't bothered by it. The control cavity cover is anodized aluminum, which I thought was a nice touch.

I love the fret job on the thing. The fret ends go out over top of the binding, which gives you plenty of fret to work with. The frets are nicely crowned, smooth as glass, and rounded off at the ends -- comfy!

One QC issue I've seen on these USA Select Soloists is that sometimes the strings aren't centered well on the neck -- almost like the bridge is off to one side just enough to put either the bass or treble E string too close to the edge of the fretboard. Aside from this, I don't recall seeing quality issues on these guitars.

Thanks for the info on the SL2HT! I have a JS30RR, and the quality is pretty good for a 400 dollar guitar. I'm just unsure if spending an extra $300 is worth moving from an ESP/Ibanez to a Jackson.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

Generally speaking, the extra money gets you better materials and more fettling during the finishing stages.

The Law Of Diminishing Returns dictates that the improvement is not directly proportional to the amount of money spent. e. g. I have an Indonesian-made LTD that plays and sounds as well as several Japanese-made ESP models that I have tried over the years.

At any price point, the basis of a good electric guitar is something with plenty of acoustic resonance.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

Thanks for the info on the SL2HT! I have a JS30RR, and the quality is pretty good for a 400 dollar guitar. I'm just unsure if spending an extra $300 is worth moving from an ESP/Ibanez to a Jackson.

I think the guitars are different enough that $300 shouldn't be your deciding factor -- not in this price range. It would be like spending $50 more on a $300 guitar. I think seeing and playing the guitars in person will reveal which one speaks to you the most. I bought the Jackson because I already had several nice Ibanez guitars, and the ESPs I liked were all $3k+, but mostly because I wanted the Jackson. Once I saw it and played it, I knew I had to have it. That might happen for you with a different guitar.

 

[Maz]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

I think the guitars are different enough that $300 shouldn't be your deciding factor -- not in this price range. It would be like spending $50 more on a $300 guitar. I think seeing and playing the guitars in person will reveal which one speaks to you the most. I bought the Jackson because I already had several nice Ibanez guitars, and the ESPs I liked were all $3k+, but mostly because I wanted the Jackson. Once I saw it and played it, I knew I had to have it. That might happen for you with a different guitar.

The big thing for me is the quality of wood and hardware. Here are 2 guitars, one made of alder, quartersawn maple neck, ebony finger board, silver finish and gotoh hardware. The other made with same hardwar, but mahogany body, quilt maple top, and maple neck, with a dark brown burst finish.

I prefer the finish on the ESP by far, but I want my small fortune to go into something with quality, I would be happy with either guitar, but 300 can go a long way.

I look into information about Jacksons and I see people saying that the wood quality is great, but I dont see much about ESPs, which is why I'm looking for information here

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

go to a shop, play some side by side - dont even bother plugging in initially.
Youll know straight away if the ESP etc is worth the extra cash.
If you cant tell the difference, then go cheaper - but if you can tell the difference then the decision is clear.

 

[dominus]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

I usually buy a $75 Squier, and then put about $100 into upgrading it. Then it sounds better than any USA made guitar to me.



Truthfully though, upgrade your signal chain. Your LTD should be fine. Change out the pickups if necessary, just make sure you match the pickups to the wood.

I've got a client that I set up with an Agile AL-3100 and installed GFS pickups into it. He had a guitarist over that completely rocked it out, running through Amplitube.

An expensive guitar won't make you sound better. Only you can make you sound better.

 

[Maz]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

go to a shop, play some side by side - dont even bother plugging in initially.
Youll know straight away if the ESP etc is worth the extra cash.
If you cant tell the difference, then go cheaper - but if you can tell the difference then the decision is clear.

The ESPs almost always feel better to me, but that ESP seems to have so much more "features" compared to the Jackson, which makes me weary because of the $300. I'm 15, to me $1600 is a lot of money, because as of right now that's about a years worth of salary. Common sense helps sometimes. :approve:

I usually buy a $75 Squier, and then put about $100 into upgrading it. Then it sounds better than any USA made guitar to me.



Truthfully though, upgrade your signal chain. Your LTD should be fine. Change out the pickups if necessary, just make sure you match the pickups to the wood.

I've got a client that I set up with an Agile AL-3100 and installed GFS pickups into it. He had a guitarist over that completely rocked it out, running through Amplitube.

An expensive guitar won't make you sound better. Only you can make you sound better.

I was thinking of getting a new pickguard routed for humbuckers for my Starcaster if I had any extra money :scratchch Not really worth it though right now, I'd need new tuners along with the pickups

The LTD has a Floyd, I hate dealing with it. I can set it up easily, it's just too much of a pain for me.


I'd go for an Agile, but for what I'm looking for as of right now doesn't seem to be in their stock unless if I get a Floyd or a Baritone. Maybe I need to look harder. I mainly want an expensive axe for the quality, something that I can justify spending a years worth of allowance/birthday money. Of course, at my age, we all want the most expensive toys we can get our hands on. :chairfall

An Agile would make a nice addition to my collection though, I really like their V's.

 

[dominus]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

I was thinking of getting a new pickguard routed for humbuckers for my Starcaster if I had any extra money :scratchch Not really worth it though right now, I'd need new tuners along with the pickups

Starcasters are S/S/H, just so you know, you wouldn't be able to run dual humbuckers.

Pickguards are cheap here:

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Pickguards_c_9.html

This pickup (bridge model) is absolutely awesome in the bridge of a Starcaster:

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Crunchy-PAT-High-Output-Humbucker-Black_c_139.html

You could go S/S/H and get the vintage (neck) and modern (middle) pickups:

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Lil-Kil...or-Strats-Three-Versions-Available_p_461.html

These tuners would work:

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Wilkins...ers-6-inline-for-Fender-Headstocks_p_881.html

These mods would make your Starcaster sound 10 times better, for about $100.

 

[Maz]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

Starcasters are S/S/H, just so you know, you wouldn't be able to run dual humbuckers.

I took the pickguard off and the neck space looks large enough to house a humbucker, maybe I'll try and get a picture of it

 

[Vengeance]

Re: Another "This" versus "That" Thread

I've owned all 3 brands so I'll list a few like and dislikes. This is MHO of course of higher end models.

Ibby's,other than the S series I don't care for the body shapes. The middle pups seem to be in the way. The necks are waaaay to thin for me. My forearm just aches thinking about playing a wizard neck. They do have a good pups. They also make a decent trem. I would never buy a low end Ibby,close to junk as you can get.

Jackson,I love'm but I only own 1 these days. They were my main guitars for a long time. They too have that rough arm rest that is one of my main complaints with the ibby's. I just don't like the edge of the guitar cutting into my arm. Good pups,solid trems,and a lot of options. Really great guitars that give me GAS but when ever I play one I just feel...meh,whatever. Lower end models provide a lot of bang for the buck.

ESP,out of the 3 if I would walk into a store and buy a new guitar it would be a ESP,a Horizon to be precise. I still own 3 ESP's and they are some of my best and most comfortable players. Not to thin necks,comfy lazy feel,and top notch materials. You can buy a production guitar that feels like a hand made custom. Something the other two brands lack IMHO. Something about ESP's that I notice is that even the cavities are just beautiful,just goes to show the love put into the whole guitar. Lower end LTD's vary so much. One is a killer guitar the next a hunk of junk.

When it comes to top end models I like ESP's. The reason though is what I consider a comfortable player. I feel ESP has better QC too. I'll tell you what I tell everyone when they are considering spending REAL money on a fine guitar. Spend some time with them,real time not just 30 minutes in a store. Find someone that will let you play their guitar for a couple hours. I bought a Ibby years ago that I regretted buying because it was so uncomfortable to play for extended periods of time. Don't do like I did and drop a grand on a guitar that was "cool" and end up hating it.

You'll know when you find "the one".

Good Luck