Antiquities?

A

al112987

New member
Been lurking on this forum for a while,

I have a les paul studio that is currently housing a set of WCR Fillmores and I'm not a huge fan of the neck. I'm not sure what is it about it that doesn't do it for me. It sounds exactly like how Jim Wagner described when I ordered the set, but I guess I realized that it's voicing is not really for me, even though it's what I wanted in theory at the time.

Anyway, my favorite neck tone is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfM6nRVBvGs

Especially the solo tone when he rolls up his volume and just goes to work

I love that, it has just the right amount of high roll off, so it's still sweet but not grinding or icepicky, and it's just smooth and hell without getting mushy or muddy. The biggest killer for me is something that is too bassy in the neck, Dickey's neck tone isn't bassy, it's just thick and fat, so it isn't boomy or muddy. All I know about that gold top is that it has PAFs, but it's impossible to really get anything from that imo seeing that there are all sorts of PAFs, A2, A4, A5 based PAFs, and they all sound different. So I want something that really gets that and I'm wondering if the antiquities will do it. I've tried the '59 in the neck and imo it was a little bit too boomy in the neck of my LP and a tad muddy. I've never actually tried A2 pickups before because I've always thought they might be a tad too dark and a little too bassy, but everywhere I've read about the Ants, here, LPF, TGP, a bunch of amp forums, all have great things to say about them. And I've read that they are not actually that dark or bassy at all, and the bass never gets mushed out or muddy.

Oh also, I seem to have a hard time finding good clips of these in the neck as well, I'm finding tones of single coil clips but very few humbucker clips. And are these asymmetical winds?
 
Re: Antiquities?

Tell Mr. Wagner what you want. I bet he will do it for you. A Crossroads Neck could be the one you're looking for or the Bet Set neck
 
Re: Antiquities?

I was thinking about the Wagner CR neck as well as the BS neck. No doubt Jim makes killer pickups, in terms of clarity, and dynamic response, I've yet to hear a single pickup that can match my Fillmore, despite being as overwound as they are. The bridge is a badass piece of work.

But the BS is expensive and I'm not sure if you can order the neck alone. I'm wondering if the Seymour Antiquities can get close to that tone as well. They're slightly cheaper as well. 'm just afraid that they might be a tad dark, muddy or mushy sounding with the degaussed A2 but it seems that everyone seems to love them in les pauls. I might just be missing something.
 
Re: Antiquities?

The antiquity neck isn't boomy. In general it's difficult to get the neck pickup sound of a Les Paul under control if you don't like boomyness with full chords.
 
Re: Antiquities?

Doesnt have Wagner a kind of exchange policy? I remember that you can return them by paying $50 restocking fee per pup. So the Fillmore neck would cost you $60 and a whole new Bet Set $165
 
Re: Antiquities?

Yep, Jim has a return policy. I'm looking at his Betset as well and the Crossroads, but I was wondering what folks on the SD forum had to say about the Antiquities. I know a lot of guys over at the LPF swear by them, even with all the hoopla that has been surrounding WCRs (and other handwounds) for the past few years.

(Don't get me wrong, I love the Fillmores and all WCRs I've heard sound great, but I want to try something different in the neck)

Then again, the Antiquities are technically handwound, are they not? Doesn't either Seymour or MJ wind them still?
 
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Re: Antiquities?

I'm listening to the YouTube vid as I'm typing this. The Betts/Toler era is a sorely underrated period of time in the ABB's history. And talk about two great guitar tones!

Dickey's "Goldie" tone can be tough to chase down. As you point out, he gets good beef in the middle, but the highs and lows are both under control without being too attenuated.

First, I am a HUGE fan of Jim Wagner's pickups. I own about 20, and have a call in to him to wind me a another custom set. He is an ABB freak and has actually worked, hands-on, with Dickey's old Les Paul in order to emulate its tones. And Jim will tweak his formula to your specs to get you the tone that you're hearing in your mind.

Now, with that said, I have been experimenting heavily in the past few weeks with humbuckers from all over the place: Duncan, Dimarzio, WCR, VAnZandt, Holmes, Gibson, and others. Loads of magnet swaps and weird combos. All of my experimentation has been on a couple of Les Pauls, an LP Faded and an R8. Last night I even tried various bridge pickups, with A8 mags, in the neck of these guitars. (Killer tones, but WAY too powerful on the low end. But that's a whole 'nother story.)

ANYWAY ... I ran into a very similar issue as you on my LP Faded. The bridge pickup ended up being an old VanZandt Trubucker, which is pretty close to a WCR Fillmore. It sounded awesome, pure Mick Ralphs/Bad Co., so no way was it coming out of there.

But the neck was a challenge. I normally like a fat, spongey, compressed neck tone with a fair amount of mud on the low end. I can get that tone easily from any number of stock pups. But on this guitar I decided to go for a neck pup that would match the character of the bridge - tight lows, warm mids, moderate bite on the high end, but absolutely NO grit or harshness. I wanted warmth on the low end, just tighter than what I normally go for. Overall, very much like Dickey's "Goldie" tone.

So I started operating. A '59 was too gritty, and too harsh on the high end, so I went for something warmer. A PG sounded OK, much less grit than the 59, but didn't have the rounded high-end attack; it was a little too aggressive. Alnico Pro 2 had a beautiful warmth and rounded low-end, but the attack was opposite of the PG - too subtle.

A Seth Lover sounded very nice. Might be a little fat on the low-end for what you want, but it is pretty close; I'd be very happy with it for that tone. Surprisingly, the Jazz came close as well. I got it in a pile of trade stuff years ago, but always thought it would sound sterile. Decided to finally give it a try, and I was pleasantly surprised. In my LP it had a LOT of character. The warmth of the Seth but with tighter lows, and the bite of a '59 without the harshness. I'd say it's a little closer to a Duane Allman or Jeff Beck tone, as opposed to Dickey's rounder, flatter tone. But it's in the ballpark for sure. Out of the whole batch, I'd say the Seth gets you there best. (Obviously your guitar's character will have something to say about that, but I think the Seth is a pretty reliable way to go).

Then I started trying different magnets in each of these pups. I won't get into all of that. But I will tell you that the A2P with an A5 was the magic ticket. I'd characterize it as a Jazz with slightly flatter EQ curve, or perhaps a Seth with tighter lows and slightly reduced mids. I had decided that something halfway between the Seth and Jazz would be perfect, and the A2P/5 nailed it dead-on. I left it in the guitar and turned off the soldering iron. And in another thread, I stated that Duncan should consider making this a production model. I think it's that good. BTW, I tried a Seth/A5, but it was surprisingly bland for some reason. I didn't try a Jazz/A2. It was next on the list, but the A2P/5 made further experimentation unneccessary.

So, there's a bunch of info from my experimentation. Hope it helps!
 
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