Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help!

[JPMTO]

After much research, I replaced my Josephina wound CS 60's with a set of Antiquity Surfers for more output and clarity. I jammed with my band last night (doing a Clapton tribute this month) and the Neck and Middle pick-up were almost unusable in that setting. Way too dark and thick and wouldn't cut through the mix.

I'm using a CS 63 Journeyman Strat through a 1973 Princeton with Webber speaker. Pedal board is Klone (always on) > King of Tone (for leads).

The CS 60's sounded really sweet at home, but also didn't really sing and have the throatiness for leads. But I think they might have sounded better than the Surfers, which really surprised me based on what I've read and listed to online. Am I missing something? They were installed by a pro who does great work in the city.

I'm now debating these pick ups:
- SD Texas Hots or Mix Texas Hots with Surfers? I think they have a return/exchange policy
- Lindy Fralin Vintage Hot or Blues Hot (people seem to love those)
- Klien Jazzy Cats -- I do love JM style tone, but is this too limiting of a set?
- Put my set of Lollar Blackface (in my old strat) in them? Not sure how "straty" these sound, but they are nice.
- Put Josephina wound in Neck and Middle + something hotter in bridge??
- Anything else??

My tone influencers are John Mayer, Clapton, SRV, Doyle Bramhall, Allman Bros...and Jerry Garcia (note that Jerry tones can be achieved with most of these pick ups in middle setting with the right amp settings).

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!!!!

 

[jeremy]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

do you use the middle pup by itself? if not, id lower it. the notch tones are all about the relationship between the middle pup and other active pup. im assuming you readjusted your amp and pedal settings after getting the new pups, right?

the texas hots arent going to give you a brighter notch tone than the surfers. the ssl1 would be a touch brighter than the surfer with similar tonality, although i prefer the surfers since they seem to have more texture to the mids. i like the fralin vintage hots as well. the surfers should be able to do most of those tones with out trying too hard (although allmans is pretty much all gibson so that might be a stretch)

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

I like the CS Texas Specials for a hair more than the ssl-1. I never had problems with muddiness.

 

[JPMTO]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

Cool thanks. Do you have an idea height I should lower it to?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

not really. id drop it pretty low, check the tone and start moving it up 1/2 turn at a time

 

[Mincer]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

I will agree that the Texas Hots won't be brighter. SSL-1s or -2s will be. As far as height, lower it a little at a time and check. Absolute numbers here don't work due to action & playing style.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

Any vintage single coil will have all the treble you need, you just have to let it thru. Change your pots to 300k and you'll get plenlty of treble and clarity.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

Is it only the neck & middle position or all three?

 

[JPMTO]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

Just neck and middle. But I just lowered them to about 2mm and much better.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

BTW you only should lower the bass side of the pickup. You want the treble side of the pickup on the same distance to the string, if you fret the high e on the highest fret.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

If you get a chance to take a pic or 2 of the wiring, post it here. Something might not be right if they are that dark.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

My experience is that I get right in the ballpark by holding the two e strings down at the highest fret...and then adjusting the bass side of the three pickups to about 1/8” away from the underside of the low e string...and about 1/16” away from the high e string.

Any closer and you’re going to get That awful out of tune sound when you play or chord above the 7th fret, caused by the magnetic pole pieces pulling the wound strings out of tune when you fret them and press the strings closer to the pickups.

So 1/8” and 1/16” as a starting point...then tweak from there.

Listen for that out of tune sound when you fret the wound strings on the higher frets and move the neck and middle pickups a screw turn away.

You might want the middle pickup a little further away on the low e side, and the bridge a little closer.

Use your ears.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

The wild thing is that Strat pickups respond to even 1/8 turns when you are close.

If it’s only the N/M position that’s dark, you can try moving the middle tone to the bridge. Right now you have three pots loading down the pickups in that position, if you move the middle tone to the bridge it will get brighter.

 

[JPMTO]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

It was the pick up height. Too high. Was around 4mm and now 2mm.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

better now?

 

[JPMTO]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

Well not playing live. The bridge pick up is great. The neck just doesn’t cut through the mix at all. Not sure what to do.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

Not sure what to do.

Change your pots to 300k. And no load the tone. There's no such thing as a dark vintage single coil. It's the 250k pots that are making it dark. That's like if you had your tone turned down and then said the pickups are too dark, I tell you to turn up the tone and you said not sure what to do.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

I'd recommend a 500k pot. But I am still curious because these are some 'cutting' pickups. I suppose it is possible that they aren't sounding that way in your guitar.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Antiquity Surfers -- got em, but sounds a little thick/muddy in neck/middle? Help

I tried every pot combo in my Strat with ssl1s. I started with 1 meg and that was a bonesaw. 500k still let some serious glass thru so that could definitely be the right option for you depending on how much cut you want in the live environment. 300k with a no load tone to me was balanced but still let the beauty of the glass thru. When I finally went back to 250k it did sound a bit dark even playing at home. I could see how that set up could be too dark for band mix.