Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

[OaklandA]

I've noticed lately that my favorite Tele bridge pickups are wound with 43 gauge wire. Like a Broadcaster tone fer instance. Seems to add a slightly thicker nasal quality rather than the stereotypical Telecaster bridge tone.

Anyone know what the Antiquity I bridge is wound with?

Thanks

 

[jeremy]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

#42. there were very few old teles that had 43 for the bridge pup. broadcasters had #42 plain enamel on the bridge and #43 on the neck, just like the antiquitys. the jd tele bridge uses #43

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

#42. there were very few old teles that had 43 for the bridge pup.

I didn't think there were any at all. Must have been one scrawny sounding Tele!

 

[jeremy]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

ive only seen one in person and it was 60's not 50's. like every weird thing back in the day, i bet they ran out of #42 so used #43 instead rather than stop production.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

And there's a reason they didn't CONTINUE with the 43 gauge bridge. Unless they were aware of the potential wimpiness and put a few extra turns on it to compensate.

 

[OaklandA]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

And there's a reason they didn't CONTINUE with the 43 gauge bridge. Unless they were aware of the potential wimpiness and put a few extra turns on it to compensate.

Maybe that's it. I'm surprised at the wimpiness comments as the pickups I've had that were wound with 43 (Don Mare 0038, older Duncan Broadcaster, JD, Fralin Steel Pole 43) were not wimpy at all but kinda thick, biting with an upper mid presence.

I know the DM 0038 has a DC of 10k so maybe it's that they're overwound a bit. I believe the Fralin SP 43 is overwound as well.

Interesting.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

yes they are. i dont think any duncan broadcaster came with #43, at least none that ive seen. the jd does have more turns and the fralin has quite a bit more. not sure about donzo's but if its 10k then it has alot more than 8k turns which is what the vintage tele's with #42 had

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

Sorry to be a stickler here guys but ALL 1950 model Broadcasters and Esquires used #43 wire on both neck and bridge pickups...

Also, 1951 Broadcasters (there are only a few), early Nocasters, and early 1951 Esquires also used #43 wire on both pickups...

The pickup base plate changes from zinc plated to copper plated early in 1951 and shortly after that they switched from #43 wire to #42 wire on the bridge pickups.

Now, one thing that is a sort of untrue legend is the myth of the super hot pickups in the earliest guitars...most 1950 lead pickups read around 7-8k, some do get to and over 9k...none that I have ever seen or heard of actually broke 10k despite internet rumor and some of them were actually quite low, some as low as the mid 5k range and many in the 6k range.

Also worth noting, is that according to Alan Hamel all 1949-1954 lead pickups in Broadacsters, Nocasters, Telecasters and Esquires used Alnico III magnets and the switch to Alnico V in the bridge happened just before the switch to staggered magnets of a slightly smaller diameter.

Despite what some pickups winders say they offer it is hard to find anyone that winds a completely correct set of early 50's Broadcaster/Esquire pickup(s)...more often than not they are too hot, use the wrong magnets and/or use the wrong cover on the neck pickup...

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

I didn't think there were any at all. Must have been one scrawny sounding Tele!

Not so sir...I have a set of custom wound pickups in my Cleveland Guitars Broadcaster...both pickups wound with #43 wire, the neck is 5.4k and the bridge is 6.8k and I'd stack that guitar up against any tradition Tele set and hold me own...it's quite the meaty sound for sure, ask anyone thats played it.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

And there's a reason they didn't CONTINUE with the 43 gauge bridge. Unless they were aware of the potential wimpiness and put a few extra turns on it to compensate.

Ya know, oddly enough when Fender switched from #43 to #42 wire in the bridge pickups the winds actualyl got a little weaker for a while...

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

Was Fender conciously checking resistance back then, or were they just "winding 'em til they're full"? If the latter is true, then there's no reason for the #43 pickups to be weaker than the #42's.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

Maybe that's it. I'm surprised at the wimpiness comments as the pickups I've had that were wound with 43 (Don Mare 0038, older Duncan Broadcaster, JD, Fralin Steel Pole 43) were not wimpy at all but kinda thick, biting with an upper mid presence.
I know the DM 0038 has a DC of 10k so maybe it's that they're overwound a bit. I believe the Fralin SP 43 is overwound as well.
Interesting.

Not really very overwound...

The Don Mare 0038 is based on a real vintage pickup, it's the bridge pickup in 1950 model Broadcaster serial number 0038 and it's bridge pickup reads a solid 9.12k

The Fralin SP43 however has little in common with a Tele pickup at all, it's actually based on a P-90 which explains the construction and tone...

Pickup winders that know how can really get a fat tone from #43 wire...even at low winds!

 

[OaklandA]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

@GuywhoInventedFire

Thanks for your responses....really cleared up a lot of stuff.

Still want a definitive answer on the Antiquities....if they are based on the earliest of Tele/Broadcaster pickups they might be 43 I suppose. Though I'm getting the impression they are more likely 42's.

 

[OaklandA]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

yes they are. i dont think any duncan broadcaster came with #43, at least none that ive seen. the jd does have more turns and the fralin has quite a bit more. not sure about donzo's but if its 10k then it has alot more than 8k turns which is what the vintage tele's with #42 had

Actually I got from older threads on this forum that some SD Broadcasters were wound with 43 wire. Maybe they were custom winds by Seymour or maybe just the older ones (according to Don Mare), but certainly there's a few out there.

Thanks

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

@GuywhoInventedFire

Thanks for your responses....really cleared up a lot of stuff.

Still want a definitive answer on the Antiquities....if they are based on the earliest of Tele/Broadcaster pickups they might be 43 I suppose. Though I'm getting the impression they are more likely 42's.

I am almost positive that the Ants are all #42 on the bridge pickups

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

Actually I got from older threads on this forum that some SD Broadcasters were wound with 43 wire. Maybe they were custom winds by Seymour or maybe just the older ones (according to Don Mare), but certainly there's a few out there.

Thanks

I've nver heard this, in fact I've always heard that SD Broadcaster pickups were #42...it'd be interesting if the old ones were #43...if you find out for sure please let us know.

BTW...a call to SD would answer both of these questions.

 

[OaklandA]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

Well, I contacted SD. The answer is...:

"Thanks for your email. Unfortunately, that spec is proprietary
information."

Well, there you go. Not that it is a huge issue, just one I was curious about. If anyone knows for sure I'd like to know.

What I do know for sure, for whatever value it may have, is that the following Tele bridge pups are wound with 43g wire:

Duncan Jerry Donahue
Don Mare 0038
Fralin Steel Pole 43
Fred Stuart Lap Wrap
Rumplestiltskins 1950 Black-Rope
Klein Broadcaster

I'm sure there are others.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Curly]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

the early teles were pretty inconsistent, as far as resistance. If you look through The Blackguard Book, which is about the most complete record of early teles, you'll find that the neck pickups varied from 5K - 7K, and the bridge pickups varied from about 6-9K.

the one thing that was consistent with the early tele pickups is that they were all "hand wound". Incidently, Fender didn't wind to a certain resistance, but rather to a certain number of turns.

a tele bridge pickup wound with #42 wire will go up to about 8K with a full coil, and around 10K with #43 wire. I think Don Mare has commented that those two pickups would have similar output, although the one wound with #43 wire would probably be a little more compressed.

Keep in mind that lots of experienced people have said that resistance doesn't necessarily equal output. It's a good objective guide for comparison, but of course doesn't tell the whole story.

The good news is that nowadays, there are so many people making good versions of tele pickups, you can pretty much find exactly what you're looking for ... as long as you know what that is.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

Odd...I can't imagine why they'd tell you that...FWIW, I am almost positive it is #42 wire...

Anyway, if you want a great old school, 1950 Broadcaster tone there are a few winders out there that offer them but most of them are wrong in either specs, construction and/or tone.

Fred Stuart would be my first choice of the guys you mentioned and he can do them but it is a custom order...just order a Lap Wrap but only wound to 6 or 7 or even 8k...the Lap Wrap is 10k and no matter what you read on the WWW that is NOT the typical 1950 tone...too hot, compressed and midrangy...close but not right, dropping the wind down a bit will get you fdar close.

Don Mare can do them but he will try and talk you out of it claiming that a pickups wound with #43 wire to anything less than 9.5k is just too bright and thin but thats just not the case if the winder knows how to get the tone...

I've never messed with the other guys ytou mentioned...

However, even more than Stuart I'd just get a CS Duncan...just call MJ up in the CS and tell her you want a cusotm Tele bridge pickup...get the large diameter poles, flat of course, get her to use alnico III magnets and #43 wire, have it sound to between 6 and 8k and you're there...if you want it hotter they will do it but trust me, if you are looking for that typical 1950 Broadcaster tone it's not in a hot wind...

 

[jeremy]

Re: Antiquity Telecaster Bridge - 42 or 43 wire?

im 99.9% sure that the antiquity is #42 plain enamel wire.

thanks for the info christian. i dont have much hands on experience with anything before '52