Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

[CaughtLikeFire]

Just finished rocking out on my Laney LC15 with a new Mercury Magnetics output transformer - well worth the $75 I paid to get one from Weber. the original OT was dying out - amp output would intermittently drop off, overall volume was not what it should be. now the amp is loud, clear, and the harmonics are richer.

I know that every company hypes their products to a certain extent, but the claims that Mercury makes have proven to be true so far. my first MM upgrade was the OT in my Stiletto Ace. the amp didn't need an upgrade, but I was bored and wanted to see what it would do. it delivered in spades (no pun intended). Sweeter harmonics and even more clarity.

MM claims that the Axiom transformers will increase even-order harmonics , which will sweeten the tone and reduce ear fatigue. With my Mesa and Laney, this is definitely the case. Harmonic detail is improved with both amps (especially the Laney) and I can play both of them at higher volume without the uncomfortable feeling that loud amps normally give me after a few minutes.

I know that Mercury takes some flack for it's upgrade kits being overkill and too much $$$ (selling a power transformer and choke when they're not considered truly necessary) but my experience has been 100% positive. Anybody else using MM transformers?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

Personally i've not been all that impressed with them...everyone raves about how much better they sound that stopck trannys however the issue is that most folks that are making that claim went to a MM tranny from a real hunk of garbage...almost anything would be an improvement.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

mm makes great stuff but so do others for much less $. ive bought more than 10 trannys so i get a decent deal compared to full pop but still not cheap.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

I'm a fan of good iron, but I don't really care what the brand name is. If you need an upgrade or a replacement then MM with their wide range of replacement trannies will probably have the right replacement part even for rather obscure amps.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

yeah, i got a new fat stack dual b+ power tranny for a musicmaster bass amp that was a direct bolt in replacement. no one else makes silly stuff like that right now

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

When I had my Celtic built, Scott asked me what I wanted for a transformer. He told me Mercury Magnetics is the gold standard as far as trannies are concerned, so I went with that (as I had the cash to splurge at the time). I can't really speak to any apples-to-apples comparisons, as that's the only tranny that's been in that amp, but I know I love the sound I get.

Not a particularly helpful post, but I thought I'd put two cents in here anyway.

- Keith

 

[glassman]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

I really need to investigate these Mercury Magnetic transformers! What I don't understand is how they would be able to enhance only even order harmonics...and I was (until very recently) a quality/applications engineer for a magnet wire company for 20+ years; I lived and breathed this stuff! Tube amps naturally produce more even order harmonics and I would imagine that the MM folks have produced a more efficient coupling to achieve the richer harmonic structure. They probably heavily interleave and use M1 laminations. The problem I have with this approach is that tube amp warmth is partially due to hysteresis loss in the core; also known as saturation loss. What most people don't realize is that saturation isn't a threshhold point; it is present at all output levels. M1 has very low hysteresis loss.

For those of you who are BF Fender fans...myself included; Part of the "sound" of these amps is due to core loss. Remember what was going on in the world at the time these were built...the Vietnam war. Higher quality steel would have been difficult to source as most of it would have gone to the war effort and the remaining portion to critical applications. Consumer electronics were too far down the list to be able to get M1 or even M2 steel.

 

[CaughtLikeFire]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

the issue is that most folks that are making that claim went to a MM tranny from a real hunk of garbage...almost anything would be an improvement.

you mean like with an Epi Valve Jr or Fender Champ? My experience with an MM trans in the Mesa convinced me otherwise. Mesa makes/sources pretty solid transformers and my Stiletto sounded good to start with.

despite the title of the thread though, I'd be interested to hear bad experiences with MM too, or at least hear from folks who just weren't impressed with a particular model.

They probably heavily interleave and use M1 laminations. The problem I have with this approach is that tube amp warmth is partially due to hysteresis loss in the core; also known as saturation loss. What most people don't realize is that saturation isn't a threshhold point; it is present at all output levels. M1 has very low hysteresis loss.

any links to where I could read up more on this?

I know that MM does have a series of transformers designed to clone old Fender and Marshall transformers using winds and materials as close as possible to (what they determined to be) the best-sounding examples of the originals. Tone-Clone series I think. I can't find enough info on other companies like Heyboer to figure out what their approach to transformer construction is.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

heyboer is another company ive dealt with and im very happy with the trannys ive gotten from them but they arent into marketing as much as mm and dont have as informative website but the products ive used have been great. mostly fender tweed stuff from them

 

[some_dude]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

MM claims that the Axiom transformers will increase even-order harmonics , which will sweeten the tone and reduce ear fatigue. With my Mesa and Laney, this is definitely the case. Harmonic detail is improved with both amps (especially the Laney) and I can play both of them at higher volume without the uncomfortable feeling that loud amps normally give me after a few minutes.

Hmmm.

My Electric Amp came with MM throughout and it's like that. Loud as hell, yet I never get ear fatigue. Nor does it ever seem to ring my ears like other amps I have will.

I always assumed it had something to do with the frequency response of the Electric... wonder if there's more to it?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

Personally i've not been all that impressed with them...everyone raves about how much better they sound that stopck trannys however the issue is that most folks that are making that claim went to a MM tranny from a real hunk of garbage...almost anything would be an improvement.

Made a difference in my 73 50 watt Marshall....I'm using Trace's(Voodoo Amps) MM Output Transformer...Made the amp more complex sounding and the amp also has nice overtones....It's hard to explain,but it's something you notice right away when playing through this amp....I'm also using Trace's choke in my amp but have stayed with the stock PT..I'm very happy using MM transformers!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

I really need to investigate these Mercury Magnetic transformers! What I don't understand is how they would be able to enhance only even order harmonics...and I was (until very recently) a quality/applications engineer for a magnet wire company for 20+ years; I lived and breathed this stuff! Tube amps naturally produce more even order harmonics and I would imagine that the MM folks have produced a more efficient coupling to achieve the richer harmonic structure. They probably heavily interleave and use M1 laminations. The problem I have with this approach is that tube amp warmth is partially due to hysteresis loss in the core; also known as saturation loss. What most people don't realize is that saturation isn't a threshhold point; it is present at all output levels. M1 has very low hysteresis loss.

For those of you who are BF Fender fans...myself included; Part of the "sound" of these amps is due to core loss. Remember what was going on in the world at the time these were built...the Vietnam war. Higher quality steel would have been difficult to source as most of it would have gone to the war effort and the remaining portion to critical applications. Consumer electronics were too far down the list to be able to get M1 or even M2 steel.

One important thing you left out and another reason for smaller transformers,is that Leo didn't build his amps thinking they would run them up over about half way on the volume...You could still get some clean headroom and decent volume from the amp at lower volumes...I'm speaking mainly about the 40 watt series....I had upgraded my transformers in my BF Pro Reverb several years ago...Bigtime difference in the amp in every respect,plus I was able to run the amp into 4x10s like a Super Reverb,simply because the beefier OT allowed me to click down to 2 ohms....I'm sold on the fact that better built transformers,make for a better sounding amp...I've proved it both my Vintage Marshall and my Vintage Fender stuff.....

 

[ES350]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

I've read that some of the mid-late 50's tweed OTs (5E5/5E7 etc) were specially designed to limit bass response given the tendency of P series Jensens to blow, especially with the 250u caps in the front end...

Anyhoo, I can see using an MM for specialty items like Partridges, Sunn/Dynaco, or early tweed stuff, but for most everything else there appears to be cheaper alternatives. David Allen has some nice upgrades for BF stuff that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

i think allen has his made by heyboer

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

i think allen has his made by heyboer

Do you mean Trace? Can't speak for today,but when I re-did my Marshall over to PTP,Trace was using MM Transformers in his Plexi copy amps..

 

[jeremy]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

no, i meant david allen. trace uses mm

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

no, i meant david allen. trace uses mm

10-4 Jeremy! :friday:k:

 

[glassman]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

any links to where I could read up more on this?

I know that MM does have a series of transformers designed to clone old Fender and Marshall transformers using winds and materials as close as possible to (what they determined to be) the best-sounding examples of the originals. Tone-Clone series I think. I can't find enough info on other companies like Heyboer to figure out what their approach to transformer construction is.

I don't have any links for this info...all my experience has been from working with customers and thier engineering teams. I do know that old Navy manuals talk extensively about core loss, mainly to address the principles of saturable reactors. I'm not sure where to tell you to go to find one of these but they are an excellent source for learning tube thoery.

I will definitely be checking out that MM Tone Clone line...thanks for the info!

 

[glassman]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

One important thing you left out and another reason for smaller transformers,is that Leo didn't build his amps thinking they would run them up over about half way on the volume...You could still get some clean headroom and decent volume from the amp at lower volumes...I'm speaking mainly about the 40 watt series....I had upgraded my transformers in my BF Pro Reverb several years ago...Bigtime difference in the amp in every respect,plus I was able to run the amp into 4x10s like a Super Reverb,simply because the beefier OT allowed me to click down to 2 ohms....I'm sold on the fact that better built transformers,make for a better sounding amp...I've proved it both my Vintage Marshall and my Vintage Fender stuff.....

I can't speak for Leo as to what his intentions were for different mass transformers in different amps...I don't know. I have heard that he didn't intend them to be driven to the point of distortion though; so you may be entirely correct. The majority of guys that I have worked with are blues players and were not interested in an amp that stayed cleaner at higher volumes and maintained its dynamics; they were looking for a little raunch and compression. Whether a more efficient transformer is an improvement or not would depend on what a particular player is looking for. In my position as a tech, I can't form an opinion on what is good for somebody else...I'd lose customers really fast that way.

One final note...and I'm sure some will take issue with this...bigger iron doesn't mean a more efficient coupling. There are so many other factors that come into play. One that comes to mind is the quality of the lamination coating; a poor coating will disorganize the lines of flux and cause massive inefficiencies...yet you would have no idea that there is a problem by looking at it. Another would be the actual thickness of the laminations; a "better" transformer will have thinner (and more) laminations. Increasing the size of the transformer can compensate for this but you run the risk of having to make up too much exciter current to compensate for the increased iron; this can make an amp feel "slow".

Is it obvious that I have spent a little too much time hanging out with retired Triad engineers? I even bore myself with this crap. As far as transformers go, there is no right answer...only different solutions to address the inherent inefficiencies that are inevitable.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Any other Mercury Magnetics fans here?

I can't speak for Leo as to what his intentions were for different mass transformers in different amps...I don't know. I have heard that he didn't intend them to be driven to the point of distortion though; so you may be entirely correct. The majority of guys that I have worked with are blues players and were not interested in an amp that stayed cleaner at higher volumes and maintained its dynamics; they were looking for a little raunch and compression. Whether a more efficient transformer is an improvement or not would depend on what a particular player is looking for. In my position as a tech, I can't form an opinion on what is good for somebody else...I'd lose customers really fast that way.

One final note...and I'm sure some will take issue with this...bigger iron doesn't mean a more efficient coupling. There are so many other factors that come into play. One that comes to mind is the quality of the lamination coating; a poor coating will disorganize the lines of flux and cause massive inefficiencies...yet you would have no idea that there is a problem by looking at it. Another would be the actual thickness of the laminations; a "better" transformer will have thinner (and more) laminations. Increasing the size of the transformer can compensate for this but you run the risk of having to make up too much exciter current to compensate for the increased iron; this can make an amp feel "slow".

Is it obvious that I have spent a little too much time hanging out with retired Triad engineers? I even bore myself with this crap. As far as transformers go, there is no right answer...only different solutions to address the inherent inefficiencies that are inevitable.

I like reading through your very informative posts.....I too have modded alot of tube amps and have also maintained and rebuilt them,I've done hundreds of pedals for guys on this forum since about 2004 or so,like yourself,I've dabbled quite a bit in electronics and everything related to guitars,amps,tubes,and effects.....My statements were,that I've noticed an improvement in both amps that I've upgraded transformers on....I had to switch transformers in my 66 Pro Reverb amp because of oscillation and weird issues I had at that time with the stock OT...

I did read that Fender wanted clean headroom from his amps and I'm still thinking he never thought anyone would crank his amps loud enough to get gain and compression...The blues guys invented that phenomena... ;o)

The British guys were messing with feedback,gain,and distortion also...Guys like JH,and Pete Townsend quickly come to mind...