Apperently I prefer New tubes, over Vintage tubes.

[Low_fidelity2100]

I bought a silver face vibrochamp a while back. Got it super cheap, cause its got a cab for a 10" speaker rather than the original 8". Something I didn't realize when I first bought it was, it had some vintage tubes in it. So thats pretty kool I think. Like getting a little extra bonus.

Since I've had it, I didn't feel the need to try swappin out different tubes, cause I figured "Old tubes are better than new ones and I can't afford NOS tubes, so This is the best it can get for me right now." I've never had much experiance with Old tubes before this, so I was just takeing everyone else's word for it.

But earlyer I got bored, an decided to try out some different tubes, just to see. It came with V1 RCA 12AX7, and V2 Brimar ecc83/12ax7.
So Being as V2 is the tremolo tube, an suppousedly has no real effect on tone, I started by just switching around the RCA and Brimar.

RCA in V1 - the amp had TONS of bass, nice and deep thick sound, while still haveing a nice detailed High end, and a fairly Neutral Mid. Nice clean, and an Alright Dirty.
Brimar in V1 - It lost a little bass, felt a little looser an less deffined, The highs were a tad brighter, and it seemed to have a bright cutting upper mid content that I really didn't like with the amp cranked.

Neither was really "better" than the other, just different. Both sounded really nice clean, but I like the RCA a little better clean, an the Brimar Seemed a little better with the amp cranked. All in all both were nice, even Cranked the amp cleans up nicely, Really never gets TOO dirty with any of the tubes, a nice classic crunch.

Next I rounded up all the 12AX7's I have. I took a Groove tubes 12AX7C and also a GT 12AX7M outta my Concert. A Marshall branded ECC83 outta my valve junior. And Also a Sovtek 12AX7LPS I just had in a drawer as a spare (I had two of these).
(all of the newer tubes were tested with the Brimar ecc83 in V2. With the same Fender American tele with a lil'59 in the bridge.)

GT 12AX7M - This one sounded muddy, and yet overly bright at the same time in the vibrochamp. No matter where I turned the bass knob, there seemed to be far to much bass. When I turned the Treble knob up past 6 it would remain muddy, but somehow become peirceing at the same time. So basically unpleasant.
GT 12AX7C - A nice balanced tone in the vibrochamp. A great detailed tone even with the amp Cranked. Thick Tight and detailed low end that wouldn't muddy up no matter where I had the controls set. At Full Volume this one had the Most saturated overdrive sound, while still somehow remaining Perfectly clear and defined. Although Breakup started around 6 on the controls. This Tube sounded Excellent played clean, and when cranked.
Marshall Branded ECC83 - Massive Yet Tight lowend, With Very Detailed and Prominant Upper mids, and a Smooth Treble that stayed Crisp and defined without getting Peirceing at all but the Highest Treble settings. Even with the amp Cranked, and the Bass on 10 the Low end remained tight even with Palm muteing. Although with the amp Cranked this tube seemed a little less distorted than the rest, and didn't start breaking up until around 8 on the controls. While the others started breaking up between 5 and 6.
Sovtek 12AX7LPS - A Sweet balanced tone with a nice complexity in the mids that really come through well while played right on the edge of Overdrive. Slightly less Defined than the GT 12AX7C, and Marshall ECC83, but still very detailed.

After trying all those, I settled on the Groove Tubes 12AX7C for V1. And ended up putting the Sovtek in V2, cause I saw no point in putting wear on the Brimar or RCA for a Spot that has no effect on tone (as I've been told, and changeing the tubes in there I heard no noticeable difference). Which is NOT what I was expecting to happen, haha.
I also tried the RCA and Brimar in both my Valve Junior, and My Concert. And Really didn't like either of them in The Concert. The Brimar sounded Alright in the Valve Junior, but I still prefered the Marshall Branded Tube in the Valve Junior, so thats where it went. And ended up Takeing a second GT 12AX7C out of V4 (reverb recovery) and putting it in V1 of the Concert, and putting a second Sovtek 12AX7lps I have into V4 of the Concert. Cause again I didn't wanna put the brimar or RCA in a spot that has little effect on tone, an put wear on them for no reason (I barely ever use Reverb so V4 isn't important I don't think).

So Now I've got an RCA 12AX7, and a Brimar ECC83 in a drawer. Haha. And Instead decided I liked a Groove tubes Tube OVER them. Which almost seems WRONG, ya know? But yeah, Just thought I'de share this with everyone. For no real reason, other than being bored enough to type all this. Haha

 

[wahwah]

Re: Apperently I prefer New tubes, over Vintage tubes.

Yeah, that makes sense. By the time the silver face Fenders were being produced, (1967) RCA were already 7 years into production of their standard short (14mm) greyplate tubes, which are really nothing special. The 12AX7's for which RCA are legendary are the long (17mm) blackplates, which came as standard in tweed, blonde and the earliest black face Fenders. Along with the different circuitry, these blackplate tubes were a significant contributor to the sound of those early amps, and the differences between those and the silver faces. You would definitely hear the difference between those and the Chinese Groove Tube, or the average 60's RCA.

Most importantly, you've found a preamp tube that you prefer!


Cheers.......................wahwah

 

[baritone]

Re: Apperently I prefer New tubes, over Vintage tubes.

The variety in prices of tubes is not exactly accounted for. Old old stock tubes (used, vintage), may have that broken-in sound, but since they are used, they can't be expected to last as long as NOS or NNS pickups.

NOS tubes (manufatured a long time ago, but not used) can be desirable if a certain model has been made unavailable, if a factory has shut down, or some changes were made at that factory. I am not totally sure across the board how this affects the sound, but I don't think old tubes really age/wear in any way if they're not being used. Even if there is a tone difference, I personally do not feel that this difference in tone justifies the difference in price.

NNS (new, unused) tubes to me are the most practical. They generally cost less, and they are built at factories which are up and running today. The desirable broken-in sound of used tubes can built up to by just playing through the amp for a certain amount time. I prefer to pick my toobs from this category. I turn to Electro-Harmonix for all my tube needs.

There are some guitarists who have specific preferences when it comes to choosing tubes. I am sure some others will describe these preferences in succesive posts.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Apperently I prefer New tubes, over Vintage tubes.

I have a personal stash of mid to late 50's RCA blackplate 12AX7's as well as early 60's Mullard ECC83's, all of which are slightly used, with between 75 - 95% life left in them. Each of these tubes could be reasonably expected to last with regular gigging and session work for about 8 - 10 years, some will go for on a lot longer. At the moment I have examples of each running in three different amps, and they have been in there for 3+ years, showing no signs of quitting! These are definitely factors to be considered when discussing the price of tubes. The average price for each was around US$20, and I often bought pairs or quads with the same production date codes. Longevity was definitely an important criteria in quality control and production ethics in the 50's and 60's. Sadly, it is not the case today. Still, I will happily encourage everyone to continue using current production tubes, for my own nefarious agenda.....muahahahaaaaa...



Cheers.....................wahwah

 

[baritone]

Re: Apperently I prefer New tubes, over Vintage tubes.

Modern preamp tubes are said to be acceptable if they last 2 years. My amp has a really old GE 12AX7, which I don't know much about, but it has lasted the few years I have been using it.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Apperently I prefer New tubes, over Vintage tubes.

I've always considered the GT12AX7C to be one of the best pre tubes ever, and everytime I suggest it, someone tries to 'one up' it with some NOS tube nobody's gonna waste money on anyway.

The GT12AX7C has beaten almost all the tubes I have in my Crown Royal Bag full of 12AX7's......and that includes old Mullards, GE, Sylvania, JJ, Sovtek, Svetlana.

I think the GT-C is just a Chinese Shuguang 9th Generation tube relabeled.

 

[Low_fidelity2100]

Re: Apperently I prefer New tubes, over Vintage tubes.

I've always considered the GT12AX7C to be one of the best pre tubes ever, and everytime I suggest it, someone tries to 'one up' it with some NOS tube nobody's gonna waste money on anyway.

The GT12AX7C has beaten almost all the tubes I have in my Crown Royal Bag full of 12AX7's......and that includes old Mullards, GE, Sylvania, JJ, Sovtek, Svetlana.

I think the GT-C is just a Chinese Shuguang 9th Generation tube relabeled.

Yeah, I was really surprised it ended up being my Favorite outta everything I've got. A while back I had done the same thing with my concert, just testing out every different 12AX7 I owned at that time in V1 to see what sounded best. And I'de settled on the GT-C as the best sounding of what I had in the concert also. But at that time all I had other than the GT-C's was sovtek's and the GT-M's, so I just figured The GT-C was the best out of the "cheap" tubes I had. Turns out that its just a great tube period. Haha.

I'm hopein your right about them just bein relabled Shuguang's, Cause Shuguang's are cheap as hell. Be nice to be able to get the sound I want, an not have to spend an arm an a leg on it.

Now I just gotta figure out what to do with the RCA and the Brimar, haha. It seems weird to just have em setting in a drawer as Spares, ya know? I'm sure theres something that they'de sound perfect in (not V1 of any of my amps apperently), just gotta figure out what. It seems like a waste to not use em.