JeffB
Let it B
For my household. This is kinda long, I spent alot of time doing this experiment. Nothing scientific, just how things work out in my #1 Les Paul.
I have been using a set of A2 Tonerider Classics for the past few months, and I was happy with how well they did in my #1. They punch above their price point for sure and sounded alot better than some much more expensive pickups. But I've been wanting to do this for a long, long time with Duncan 59s and picked up a set.
Frankly, there is not a whole lot of difference between the 59s and the TR pickups under most conditions. The toneriders sound a bit "bigger", the Duncans had the tiniest bit more top end and are a bit more "narrow". But overall I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, did I not know. I'm pretty positive the TR's have polysol wire based on color, and the 59s PE as we all know.
very similar on my meter as well
8.38k TRB vs 8.4K 59B
7.58k TRN vs 7.38K 59N
So I decided to try mags in one set, take notes of my impressions, then try the other set.
I had the following mags to try
polished A5 that were stock in the 59s
polished A2 that were stock in the TRs
Roughcast A2
1 short roughcast A5 from a Gibson 61 zebra
Short roughcast A5 from Re-Wind electric charged specifically for James' T top clones.
roughcast UOA5
roughcast A4
I kept the mags in for a few days. I know some people say, the mags will sound a bit better over a few days, but I'm unsure if it is that you get used to the magnet, or the pickup is getting used to the magnet.
polished A5 had the same effect in the TR as the 59s. The bass and treble is too much and a bit strident. Boomy and brittle at the same time.
polished A2. These sounded better in the TR, probably as the pickup was designed around them and probably charged "perfectly". But both sets got that muddy low mid..Fantastic for single notes, but when playing distorted chords, the "melding" or lack of clarity was bugging me. This is largely why I set about on the mag swapping craze to begin with. Very chewy,thick and chirpy. If I was leaning towards more of a Blues-Rock Gibbons, Kossoff tone, I would stick with these.
Roughcast A2- I knew where this would go based on the polished A2, but I was really surprised how NASAL both bridge pickups got. This also occurred with my T top clones. It wasn't so much that they were less clear than polished or were softer in highs or bass, they just got super nasal, psuedo-wah like. Not out of phase but more like a ^ EQ curve. Neck pickups did not react as poorly, but only really liked clean tones on the neck.
Roughcast UOA5- Good match for both sets overall, but still a little boomy in the neck pickups, especially the TR. Didn't seem to have more output than the polished A2 sets, just a tiny bit more high end, and smidge more bass. A clearer A2, if you will. Did not seem to have less mids than the A2 pickups, but rather it's a bit more focused and less fuzzy midrange. I also found it less satisfying. The pickups sounded a little boring compared to the roughcast A5s or the various A2s.
Roughcast A5- Still a bit "hard". Not as bad as the polished A5 mags, the difference is small, but enough to say "yep...that's what my old 59s from the 80s sounded like". As Lew said, it brings some midrange texture (chew) to them and softens up the extremes. Still a bit too bright for my guitar in the bridge. but I liked them and really could probably live with them in either set. The TR neck seemed to like this mag a bit less than the 59n.
Short roughcast A5 (Rewind)- I only tried these in the bridge 59 and TR bridge. This should put them into those early pat# pickup types before the output dropped, the change to poly, etc. Less bass than RCA5, less output, and a shift towards high midrange, and the midrange gets a tele like "pop" which is one of things I love about T tops. The 59B seemed to get a little too lean/toppy. The TR lost output too, but retained more muscle.
Gibson 61Z short roughcast A5- again bridge pickups only. Do not know what is different about this one compared to the Rewind versions, but both 59 and TR liked this mag. It is a little more textured in the midrange than the Rewind shorts, and it also a bit softer/more vintage, did not seem.quite as strong as the rewinds. Probably a gauss thing? Again the TR really took to this magnet more than the 59b, but it was good in both. Probably my fave so far in the bridge FOR MY TASTES.
And now as I was moving on to the A4s, I was impatient and rushing through the mag swap process I killed the 59b with a screwdriver slip is my guess. It won't meter any more. ARRRRRRGHHHH. I decided to forge ahead with the 59n anyway.
Roughcast A4- I get the "flat" comments. Its the only mag type where I did not know what my initial reaction really was. I'm still not positive. It seems to solve "eq problems" of boomy bassy and tinny highs, but loses something in the process. Now, I have really liked the A4 Fralin and BK mules I have played, but in these pickups, not sure. I really love the sound when you roll the guitar volumes off to clean up...just beautiful. But with my normal 70s Marshally crunch, I'm less enthusiastic. Grainy is a buzzword I would use. I could see these being better for shred. They also are very dynamic/responsive to touch- another big plus. I think it does better in the neck, than the bridge.
For now #1 has the gibson short 5 in the bridge TR and the A4 in the neck TR. The combo of the lower output short 5 and heftier wind is doing what I had been trying to get out of my T-top. I just needed a little more push.
I don't think I'll get another 59b. The 59s just don't sound any better in my guitar to warrant the extra expense of replacing the one I killed. I plan to give the A4 some more time in the neck. I may get an A3 to experiment a bit further..
This was actually alot of fun, despite the PITA of swapping everything, and my own stupidity killing the 59b. It was very useful n learning that some mag swaps were just fine tuning, and in certain cases the pickup/mag reaction was to either extreme...really good or really bad. It also reinforces the idea that certain mags are not always an improvement or a detriment. Each pickup can react very differently. I still probably would not find much use for polished A5 in my pickup choices, but maybe in a super dark, thick, hot pickup like Super 3 or something it may be the ticket to add some softness over ceramic.
I have been using a set of A2 Tonerider Classics for the past few months, and I was happy with how well they did in my #1. They punch above their price point for sure and sounded alot better than some much more expensive pickups. But I've been wanting to do this for a long, long time with Duncan 59s and picked up a set.
Frankly, there is not a whole lot of difference between the 59s and the TR pickups under most conditions. The toneriders sound a bit "bigger", the Duncans had the tiniest bit more top end and are a bit more "narrow". But overall I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, did I not know. I'm pretty positive the TR's have polysol wire based on color, and the 59s PE as we all know.
very similar on my meter as well
8.38k TRB vs 8.4K 59B
7.58k TRN vs 7.38K 59N
So I decided to try mags in one set, take notes of my impressions, then try the other set.
I had the following mags to try
polished A5 that were stock in the 59s
polished A2 that were stock in the TRs
Roughcast A2
1 short roughcast A5 from a Gibson 61 zebra
Short roughcast A5 from Re-Wind electric charged specifically for James' T top clones.
roughcast UOA5
roughcast A4
I kept the mags in for a few days. I know some people say, the mags will sound a bit better over a few days, but I'm unsure if it is that you get used to the magnet, or the pickup is getting used to the magnet.
polished A5 had the same effect in the TR as the 59s. The bass and treble is too much and a bit strident. Boomy and brittle at the same time.
polished A2. These sounded better in the TR, probably as the pickup was designed around them and probably charged "perfectly". But both sets got that muddy low mid..Fantastic for single notes, but when playing distorted chords, the "melding" or lack of clarity was bugging me. This is largely why I set about on the mag swapping craze to begin with. Very chewy,thick and chirpy. If I was leaning towards more of a Blues-Rock Gibbons, Kossoff tone, I would stick with these.
Roughcast A2- I knew where this would go based on the polished A2, but I was really surprised how NASAL both bridge pickups got. This also occurred with my T top clones. It wasn't so much that they were less clear than polished or were softer in highs or bass, they just got super nasal, psuedo-wah like. Not out of phase but more like a ^ EQ curve. Neck pickups did not react as poorly, but only really liked clean tones on the neck.
Roughcast UOA5- Good match for both sets overall, but still a little boomy in the neck pickups, especially the TR. Didn't seem to have more output than the polished A2 sets, just a tiny bit more high end, and smidge more bass. A clearer A2, if you will. Did not seem to have less mids than the A2 pickups, but rather it's a bit more focused and less fuzzy midrange. I also found it less satisfying. The pickups sounded a little boring compared to the roughcast A5s or the various A2s.
Roughcast A5- Still a bit "hard". Not as bad as the polished A5 mags, the difference is small, but enough to say "yep...that's what my old 59s from the 80s sounded like". As Lew said, it brings some midrange texture (chew) to them and softens up the extremes. Still a bit too bright for my guitar in the bridge. but I liked them and really could probably live with them in either set. The TR neck seemed to like this mag a bit less than the 59n.
Short roughcast A5 (Rewind)- I only tried these in the bridge 59 and TR bridge. This should put them into those early pat# pickup types before the output dropped, the change to poly, etc. Less bass than RCA5, less output, and a shift towards high midrange, and the midrange gets a tele like "pop" which is one of things I love about T tops. The 59B seemed to get a little too lean/toppy. The TR lost output too, but retained more muscle.
Gibson 61Z short roughcast A5- again bridge pickups only. Do not know what is different about this one compared to the Rewind versions, but both 59 and TR liked this mag. It is a little more textured in the midrange than the Rewind shorts, and it also a bit softer/more vintage, did not seem.quite as strong as the rewinds. Probably a gauss thing? Again the TR really took to this magnet more than the 59b, but it was good in both. Probably my fave so far in the bridge FOR MY TASTES.
And now as I was moving on to the A4s, I was impatient and rushing through the mag swap process I killed the 59b with a screwdriver slip is my guess. It won't meter any more. ARRRRRRGHHHH. I decided to forge ahead with the 59n anyway.
Roughcast A4- I get the "flat" comments. Its the only mag type where I did not know what my initial reaction really was. I'm still not positive. It seems to solve "eq problems" of boomy bassy and tinny highs, but loses something in the process. Now, I have really liked the A4 Fralin and BK mules I have played, but in these pickups, not sure. I really love the sound when you roll the guitar volumes off to clean up...just beautiful. But with my normal 70s Marshally crunch, I'm less enthusiastic. Grainy is a buzzword I would use. I could see these being better for shred. They also are very dynamic/responsive to touch- another big plus. I think it does better in the neck, than the bridge.
For now #1 has the gibson short 5 in the bridge TR and the A4 in the neck TR. The combo of the lower output short 5 and heftier wind is doing what I had been trying to get out of my T-top. I just needed a little more push.
I don't think I'll get another 59b. The 59s just don't sound any better in my guitar to warrant the extra expense of replacing the one I killed. I plan to give the A4 some more time in the neck. I may get an A3 to experiment a bit further..
This was actually alot of fun, despite the PITA of swapping everything, and my own stupidity killing the 59b. It was very useful n learning that some mag swaps were just fine tuning, and in certain cases the pickup/mag reaction was to either extreme...really good or really bad. It also reinforces the idea that certain mags are not always an improvement or a detriment. Each pickup can react very differently. I still probably would not find much use for polished A5 in my pickup choices, but maybe in a super dark, thick, hot pickup like Super 3 or something it may be the ticket to add some softness over ceramic.
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