Are all Ceramic magnets the same ???

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

Never thought of this until a few months ago.
We know Alnico magnets come in various strengths (and thus, tonal characters) A2, A3, A4, A5, A8.

BUT . . . what about Ceramics ?
Do you only get ONE strength of Ceramic ?
Are all Ceramic magnets created equally ?
IF, you get diff strengths, why do non of the pick up makers use that to try and describe the tone of each, like C1, C2, C3, C4, and, and, and ! (?)

 

[freefrog]

No, they aren't . And yes, their strenght increases with numbers, with the same effect on tone than for AlNi(Co) alloys (weaker magnets = softer tone)...

https://allmagnetics.com/ceramic.htm

 

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

No, they aren't . And yes, their strenght increases with numbers, with the same effect on tone than for AlNi(Co) alloys (weaker magnets = softer tone)...

https://allmagnetics.com/ceramic.htm

Thank you very much for the link.
So . . . if there is indeed diff strength Ceramic magnets . . . i wonder why NO pick maker use the various ceramic specs in their descriptions, like they do with their Alnico magnets.
Every single pick up maker, including Seymour Duncan, just casually sates, ''Ceramic'' if it is not an Alnico driven pick up . . . BUT . . .

. . . when it is an Alnico magnet, they are very quick to state which Alnico was used.
Why not do the same with their Ceramic units ?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Thank you very much for the link.
So . . . if there is indeed diff strength Ceramic magnets . . . i wonder why NO pick maker use the various ceramic specs in their descriptions, like they do with their Alnico magnets.
Every single pick up maker, including Seymour Duncan, just casually sates, ''Ceramic'' if it is not an Alnico driven pick up . . . BUT . . .

. . . when it is an Alnico magnet, they are very quick to state which Alnico was used.
Why not do the same with their Ceramic units ?

I think it's because almost everyone uses Ceramic 8.

 

[freefrog]

What Rex_Rocker said... although other kinds of ceramic are used here and there IME, without being necessarily mentioned.

Now, I'll stand on my statement: whatever is the compound involved, ceramic magnets are not equal. If someone ever measures ceramic bars with a teslameter / gaussmeter, he might notice that Epiphone mags for humbuckers are stronger than bars under single coils in Squier / Fender MIM guitars, for instance, or that some HB's host ceramic ones hardly stronger than AlNi(Co). Gibson 496R comes to my mind as an example of that.
It's often correlated to the size of bars (thicker ones being stronger) but not always...

One thing is sure to me: ceramic magnets can matter. I've recently built a TarBack clone and I've missed the indox bar that I hadn't at disposal. I've tried several ceramic bars instead and they made a tonal difference according to their measured strenght, but none gave me exactly the desired magnetic field. YMMV...

 

[misterwhizzy]

I think if this is the detail to which you're tone-searching, maybe it won't matter when you add in any other instrument at all.

 

[freefrog]

Everything makes a difference and nothing makes a difference. It entirely depends on perspectives and focus.

That being said and to come back to the precise question expressed in this topic: a local winder for whom I've worked had a prototype of covered humbucker sounding like an A2 model while it hosted... low gaussed ceramic bars. This anecdote is its own comment.

 

[soulforger]

In the Dimarzio page for the Steve Morse neck model, in the tech talk section mentions that it has a weaker magnet, but it is still ceramic. It doesn't give any other specifics but that pickup has 250 mv (in Dimarzio output measurement) vs. the bridge model's 450 mv which is also ceramic. Neck model also has much higher dc resistance of over 20k while the bridge is only 9.9k, no better example than this set of the old dc doesn't equal output..I also was curious about the difference in ceramic mags between the two. I assume the bridge at least has a "thick.ceramic" as the Super Distortion/Duncan Distortion type though it would be interesting to know if the neck magnet is different rating grade of ceramic.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

What Rex_Rocker said... although other kinds of ceramic are used here and there IME, without being necessarily mentioned.

Now, I'll stand on my statement: whatever is the compound involved, ceramic magnets are not equal. If someone ever measures ceramic bars with a teslameter / gaussmeter, he might notice that Epiphone mags for humbuckers are stronger than bars under single coils in Squier / Fender MIM guitars, for instance, or that some HB's host ceramic ones hardly stronger than AlNi(Co). Gibson 496R comes to my mind as an example of that.
It's often correlated to the size of bars (thicker ones being stronger) but not always...

One thing is sure to me: ceramic magnets can matter. I've recently built a TarBack clone and I've missed the indox bar that I hadn't at disposal. I've tried several ceramic bars instead and they made a tonal difference according to their measured strenght, but none gave me exactly the desired magnetic field. YMMV...

The 496R has anything other than Ceramic 8, then? I'm interested. I've been debating on wether or not my Gibson needs a matching 496R for the 500T.

 

[freefrog]

I don't know at all what alloy of ceramic is used in 496R. My archives just state this model as having the same Gauss surface readings than AlNiCo loaded Duncan's.
FWIW, my data also state R= 8.55k, L= 4.82 Henry - and a high inner capacitance since the 496R has a low pitched resonant frequency for its LR specs.

@soulforger: thx for sharing. I suppose the neck Steve Morse model is wound with a thinner wire, giving it a very high resistance for a "reasonable" number of turns... That's what they did for their P90 sized DLX+ humbucker : 17.7k but an inductance lower than in a 8k P90. Not a so hot pickup, therefore.
But yes, DiMarzio seems to use low gaussed ceramic bars: IME, it's the case in their P90 sized Tone Zone, supposed to mimic their full sized TZ with an A5 bar.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

. . . anyone else ?