Asia market Probuckers

atf

atf

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There was a guy selling Epiphone Probuckers with the quick connect system on the local craiglist style app here in Japan, so I decided to give it a shot and went ahead and ordered them. It was only later I found out that they were coming out of Asia, and that they might be potentially ‘fake’. Anyhoo since I bought them, time to put them to the test in a project Les Paul.

All the parts were there as advertised, the pickups themselves were not flimsy or crappy designed. They were quite heavy and well built. Although the installation was quite simple, the 4 wire conductor socket for the pickups and the connector for the 3 way switch wouldn’t go through the cavity so I had to remove them, push it through and re harness everything. Took a little longer than I expected.

After the installation, it was time to put these pups to the test. Here are my observations

*Whatever they are, one thing is for sure, these are NOT you standard Epi pups. Much more clarity and focus
*Bridge pickup has a spongy bass response, balanced mids, and a nice high end
*Neck pickup is fat and clear, EXCELLENT for blues and jazz. I LOVE the neck. Sounds like a humbucker version of a Dimarzio Twang King neck pickup.
*Rolling down the volume gives it a nice balanced mid focused sound(reminiscent of a Burstbucker)
*Coil splitting gives it an Albert King kind of vibe.
*DC resistance(after installation from guitar lead) Neck 7.66 Bridge 8.26
*They sound similar to a Gibson classic plus, but the Gibson has more mids, a tighter bass and sounds more muscular (more suited for various styles,at least for me )


Whether they are stolen, copied, or defective pups I cannot say for sure, but these are not like any of the old Epi pups. I like them very much and they are excellent for a BB King, Clapton, AC/DC kind of tone, but with more clarity.
 
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Re: Asia market Probuckers

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Re: Asia market Probuckers

I played those pickups in an Epiphone DC Pro they sounded amazing. Still, don't know why I didn't buy that guitar.
 
Re: Asia market Probuckers

A lot of people like the recent (5 years or so) Epi pickups. They basically are Asian made BB Pro and 57 Classics now, and I don't think they're skimping out on the materials. PRS is doing the same thing with their SE and S2 pickups, and those are good as well. "Asian" doesn't have to mean "cheap and crappy" these days, though in some cases it is still true. But they can make good stuff when they want to.
 
Re: Asia market Probuckers

It's good to hear that Epiphone has stepped up their game. The 'buckers that came stock in my 2000 Epi dot sucked pretty hard . . . just a middy, poorly defined mess.
 
Re: Asia market Probuckers

There is a great documentary on YouTube about the epi factory.


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Re: Asia market Probuckers

GuitarStv said:
It's good to hear that Epiphone has stepped up their game. The 'buckers that came stock in my 2000 Epi dot sucked pretty hard . . . just a middy, poorly defined mess.
Click to expand...
Precisely my experience with the old stuff.

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Re: Asia market Probuckers

I have an Epic 339 with Probuckers. They are staying. Alnico Pro Humbuckers? Same thing???
 
Re: Asia market Probuckers

They are very decent sounding pickups, in my experience with them. I have played I don't know how many Epis with them (in shops), and I actually own one (an Amos model Flying V). I find them to basically be identical sounding to Burstbuckers.

They're basically Gibson-quality pickups with slightly less transparent covers, but so little less transparent that it is almost certainly inaudible in the real world. For example, each Probucker uses:

– Gibson U.S.A. bobbin dimensions
– nickel-silver baseplate (tested identical performance to Gibson baseplate)
– nickel-silver cover (tests show it's negligibly, i.e. only 1.5 dB at 7KHz, less transparent than a Gibson cover)
– Elektrisola brand single-build wire (same wire Gibson uses)
– Same alloys for slugs and screws that Gibson uses (tested identical performance to Gibsons ones)
– sand-cast Alnico 2 magnet (tested identical performance to Gibson mag)
– purposefully mismatched bobbins (just like Burstbuckers)

Those are all basically Gibson specs, in terms of parts and materials. The only tested difference has been a very slight difference in the transparency of the covers (as detailed above).

Considering that I really don't mind Gibson's P.A.F. style pickups, and these are basically Burstbuckers, I find that in theory the Probuckers do not warrant replacement. And IME, that theory carries through to the real world too. The only change I made so far was to swap their positions, putting the hotter one in the neck, and the weaker one in the bridge. That was just a personal preference, as I like a very bright bridge pickup, and a fat, smooth neck pickup. I was thrilled with the way they sounded stock (but even more thrilled now). Saves me $100 or more on pickup swaps that I don't need to do.

If you like the A2 Burstbuckers, then the old days of Epi pickup swaps being automatic are gone. If you don't dig Burstbuckers, then you won't dig Probuckers either.
 
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Re: Asia market Probuckers

Thanks. I’d been strongly considering a set of these from reverb. I’m sold.
 
Re: Asia market Probuckers

ItsaBass said:
– nickel-silver baseplate (tested identical performance to Gibson baseplate)
– nickel-silver cover (tests show it's negligibly, i.e. only 1.5 dB at 7KHz, less transparent than a Gibson cover)
– Elektrisola brand single-build wire (same wire Gibson uses)
– Same alloys for slugs and screws that Gibson uses (tested identical performance to Gibsons ones)
– sand-cast Alnico 2 magnet (tested identical performance to Gibson mag)
Click to expand...
Would you be so kind to provide a link to the aforementioned tests? Some of those statements don't seem quite right to me.

My own experience is:
* Baseplate: I've seen Probucker baseplates made of two different silvernickel alloys, the normal one and one that's yellow-looking, like in the EVO fretware. I'm not equipped with the adequate lab testgear to be able to establish any sensible difference between the two allys, so I'll just assume that's there's no audible difference. BTW, the assembling of Probucker p'ups is as TIGHT as it could possibly be. The physical coupling between all parts can't be any better. Kudos to the chinese makers; their american counterpart could learn a thing or two, mind you.

* Cover: my experience is that that the nickelsilver Epi covers are slightly thinner than the Gibsons' and the nickel-plating is absolutely 1st class. Although I couldn't do an actual eddy current comparison test, I'd bet a tenner that the Probuckers' are actually MORE transparent then the american-made ones.

* Wire: Probuckers are wound with SPN, #42AWG wire; I'm not sure about BB's though.

* Slugs/Screws: here is where there's a difference: Gibson's using 416 Stainless Steel for both, and the Probuckers use 1018 steel for Screws and 1015 steel for screws. That particular characteristic found in modern Gibson p'ups to be muddy and harsh at the same time is simply NOT PRESENT in the Probuckers.

* Sandcast alnico magnets: there are two ways to make alnico magnet bars, by sintering and by melting the metals. The molds (called casts) where you pour the molten alloy are made of sand. Normally they're referred to being either sintered or cast. I see no reason to promote one vs. the other. However, if one would intentionally try to mislead the audience by make'em think they're ROUGHCAST, the Probuckers' bar magnets are polished.

Also, the Probucker line is made by two sets: the Alnico Classic Pro and the Probucker set, made out of a Probucker 2 and a Probucker 3. The DC readings of both sets are:
Alnico Classic Pro: 7.68K neck, 8.25K bridge. Probucker 2 is 8.05K neck and 8.89K bridge.

The OP's p'ups stickers indicate a Probucker 2 and a Probucker 3, however, the DC readings indicate that those are Alnico Classic Pro. In theory, the Alnico Classic Pro should come with A5 magnets, but it's been my experience that all come with A2 magnets.

I own an Epi ES-339, which came with the Alnico Classic Pro p'ups, and their performance went through the roof when I changed the magnets, polepiece screws, slugs and keeper bar with the following alloys: Neck: Screws: 1022 steel - Slugs: 1215 steel - Keeper bar: 1018 steel - Alnico 3 magnet ::: - ::: Bridge: Screws: 1010 steel . Slugs: 1215 steel - Keeper bar: 1018 steel - Alnico 2 magnet. I kept the original covers; didn't feel the need to change'em after I measured the thickness.

The way they're wound and assembled is just like Gibson used to make'em in the Shaw era: two spacers (Probuckers are wood, Shaws were white plastic), with no start wire underneath the bobbin, so their inherent tone-footprint reminds me a lot the T-Tops'.


Throbak p'ups made a very interesting video about this lesser-known "feature" and its influence in the tonal outcome.

FWIW,

/Peter
 
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Re: Asia market Probuckers

Discharged said:
Would you be so kind to provide a link to the aforementioned tests? Some of those statements don't seem quite right to me.

My own experience is:
* Baseplate: I've seen Probucker baseplates made of two different silvernickel alloys, the normal one and one that's yellow-looking, like in the EVO fretware. I'm not equipped with the adequate lab testgear to be able to establish any sensible difference between the two allys, so I'll just assume that's there's no audible difference. BTW, the assembling of Probucker p'ups is as TIGHT as it could possibly be. The physical coupling between all parts can't be any better. Kudos to the chinese makers; their american counterpart could learn a thing or two, mind you.

* Cover: my experience is that that the nickelsilver Epi covers are slightly thinner than the Gibsons' and the nickel-plating is absolutely 1st class. Although I couldn't do an actual eddy current comparison test, I'd bet a tenner that the Probuckers' are actually MORE transparent then the american-made ones.

* Wire: Probuckers are wound with SPN, #42AWG wire; I'm not sure about BB's though.

* Slugs/Screws: here is where there's a difference: Gibson's using 416 Stainless Steel for both, and the Probuckers use 1018 steel for Screws and 1015 steel for screws. That particular characteristic found in modern Gibson p'ups to be muddy and harsh at the same time is simply NOT PRESENT in the Probuckers.

* Sandcast alnico magnets: there are two ways to make alnico magnet bars, by sintering and by melting the metals. The molds (called casts) where you pour the molten alloy are made of sand. Normally they're referred to being either sintered or cast. I see no reason to promote one vs. the other. However, if one would intentionally try to mislead the audience by make'em think they're ROUGHCAST, the Probuckers' bar magnets are polished.

Also, the Probucker line is made by two sets: the Alnico Classic Pro and the Probucker set, made out of a Probucker 2 and a Probucker 3. The DC readings of both sets are:
Alnico Classic Pro: 7.68K neck, 8.25K bridge. Probucker 2 is 8.05K neck and 8.89K bridge.

The OP's p'ups stickers indicate a Probucker 2 and a Probucker 3, however, the DC readings indicate that those are Alnico Classic Pro. In theory, the Alnico Classic Pro should come with A5 magnets, but it's been my experience that all come with A2 magnets.

I own an Epi ES-339, which came with the Alnico Classic Pro p'ups, and their performance went through the roof when I changed the magnets, polepiece screws, slugs and keeper bar with the following alloys: Neck: Screws: 1022 steel - Slugs: 1215 steel - Keeper bar: 1018 steel - Alnico 3 magnet ::: - ::: Bridge: Screws: 1010 steel . Slugs: 1215 steel - Keeper bar: 1018 steel - Alnico 2 magnet. I kept the original covers; didn't feel the need to change'em after I measured the thickness.

The way they're wound and assembled is just like Gibson used to make'em in the Shaw era: two spacers (Probuckers are wood, Shaws were white plastic), with no start wire underneath the bobbin, so their inherent tone-footprint reminds me a lot the T-Tops'.


Throbak p'ups made a very interesting video about this lesser-known "feature" and its influence in the tonal outcome.

FWIW,

/Peter
Click to expand...
Thank you for your info. To me they sound like A5 magnets, It doesn't have that softness that A2s have. I could be wrong.

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Re: Asia market Probuckers

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/...sic-versus-a-stock-epiphone-humbucker.402460/

This is the guy who swapped parts in and out of a Gibson pickup and a Probucker, then tested for differences in performance.

It's his second post (and the very last section of his first post) that really focus on comparing the different components themselves. The rest doesn't tell you much, as he's comparing two pickups with notably different winding specs.

Only difference of note was the covers, and even then, negligible in a real-world situation.

This guy is one of the only online pickup technical sources that I have come to trust, personally.
 
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Re: Asia market Probuckers

ItsaBass said:
https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/...sic-versus-a-stock-epiphone-humbucker.402460/

This is the guy who swapped parts in and out of a Gibson pickup and a Probucker, then tested for differences in performance.

It's his second post (and the very last section of his first post) that really focus on comparing the different components themselves. The rest doesn't tell you much, as he's comparing two pickups with notably different winding specs.

Only difference of note was the covers, and even then, negligible in a real-world situation.

This guy is one of the only online pickup technical sources that I have come to trust, personally.
Click to expand...

That is fantastic.
 
Re: Asia market Probuckers

I've owned both Alnico Classic Pros and Probuckers. Excellent pickups.
I'd definitely upgrade an early 2000s Epi LP/SG/335 with some Probuckers if given the chance. They're way better than stock Epi pickups from 15 years ago.
 
Re: Asia market Probuckers

ItsaBass said:
This guy is one of the only online pickup technical sources that I have come to trust, personally.
Click to expand...
Antigua? He's the p'up equivalent of a mix between a flat-earther and a climate change denier.

See the way he answers a random guy that never heard about Seth Lover p'ups and was interested in the back story.

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/seth-lovers-just-arrived.527560/

Boognish said:
Got any backstory or info on tone on these Seth Lovers? Never heard of them!
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Antigua said:
One day Seymour Duncan drove to Seth Lover's house and offered him a metaphorical suitcase of money in exchange for the rights to use his name on new pickup set. Seth said he didn't really need the money, but his wife who was apparently was in on the conversation, urged him to take the suitcase of money. Then Seymour went and had lunch. That's what happened.
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Your Honor, I rest my case!

I wouldn't trust anything he says, even if it's "the sky is blue". If that's the person you trust, then sorry to say, you're not very good at judging characters

Consider yourself warned.

/Peter
 
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Re: Asia market Probuckers

Discharged said:
Antigua? He's the p'up equivalent of a mix between a flat-earther and a climate change denier.

See the way he answers a random guy that never heard about Seth Lover p'ups and was interested in the back story.

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/seth-lovers-just-arrived.527560/



Your Honor, I rest my case!

I wouldn't trust anything he says, even if it's "the sky is blue". If that's the person you trust, then sorry to say, you're not very good at judging characters

Consider yourself warned.

/Peter
Click to expand...

You’re ridiculous.
 
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