Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

B Bent

B Bent

Vibroluxologist
What is the scoop? I have finally come to the point where I am at least interested in starting the research.

Here's my deal. I have the 62' Princeton, 61' Vibrolux and my Vibrolux Reverb that I absolutely adore. The 61 and 62 are the two that I like most when cranked pretty high, but unless I am home alone and notice my neighbor's car not in the driveway, I really can't crank as often as I like. (I have a few more old amps that range from 5-12 watts that I still cant always crank.) I like the Vibrolux Reverb clean for the most part and am not as worried about having it attenuated.

So are there any issues or concerns with the 61 and 62 if running an attenuator?
Of course, I want to hear what you guys think a good one is for these particular amps.


__________________
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

Look up the Weber MASS. Those use a reactive load, basically a deconed speaker, to pull wattage off the output, so it's more natural than a resistive load like most other attenuators do.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

yep, I like the mass too.

there isn't really a downside to using an attenuator as far as wear on the amp. its no different than running the amp at whatever volume setting you are using just with fewer db's. granted running the volume up high on an amp does push everything harder and create more heat so the amp is getting more wear and tear than if the volume were lower but that has little to do with the attenuator and everything to do with cranking the amp
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

Cool. In all my years in the guitar hobby I have never once messed around with attenuators. My knowledge of them is so basic that it is laughable. Since my most powerful amp is rated at 35 watts, would the 50 watt Weber be suitable?

Also, why do I seem to recall some sort of bad press w/ Weber attenuators?
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

I have a Dr Z Brake-lite, (rated at 35 watts) that I use with my old Princeton- works great, but, it wasn't designed to be used at bedroom volume, it's more for live use, when you have an amp w/o a master volume, and in the case of smaller wattage amps, it attenuates just enough to reach the sweet spot.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

Ya know, I kind of hate to say it, but you may lose more than normal to attenuation. It's pulling current out of the signal going to the speakers, and I'm gonna assume that your speakers on these amps are irreplaceably filled with oldie moldy mojo.

Pushing those speakers might be the thing that makes the sound. Maybe an isolation wall between the amp and the outside somewhere? If you're not all that worried about it, then it's all good. All I'm sayin' is that there's a possibility of mojo drain.

Now bad press about the MASS is a possibility. It's pretty complicated in regards to resistive loads, although the only thing I can think of happening is for it to short out and send 100% of signal to the amp, AKA attenuator off. Maybe if the load wires come off the dummy load....well, that would be bad.

For reference, attenuators in general do pretty much what your volume knob on the guitar does; it shunts more of the signal going thru it to a dump. Guitars send it to ground and attentuators run it through some sort of resistance to convert it to heat. Some do it pretty brutally by jamming the signal through a couple of passive components, and sometimes the high end gets peeled off. The more attenuation, the more high end gets pulled out. Some have filtering that allow for the high end to stay in though low to medium level volume drops, but still can't keep the whole signal in all the time. The MASS uses a deconed speaker or speaker magnet to blow off signal just like a speaker does, so it's pretty natural. It's like daisy chaining cabs, I guess.
(FYI, I'm a shlub who has only done some offhand research on it for when I thought I was going to be owning a Carvin)
There is more chance of failure in a MASS, but the benefits are better tone.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

Look into the Bad Cat Unleash. It can turn your simple amps into an attenuated 2 channel switching amp with FX loop and recording out. There's a used one at GC Northridge Ca. for $289.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

you should be fine with the 50w. but think of it this way... watts = heat dissipation if you are cranking your 35w amp for long periods of time it will generate a lot of heat
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

Here's a link to Weber's little treatise on attenuators.

http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm

Reading the preamble is particularly aimed at your problem and is something i brought up in the last post; ANY attenuator is going to remove 1) speaker distortion and 2) air movement. Your amps are pretty living, breathing animals....

But ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

i know attenuators work and can sound pretty good, but they do somewhat affect your tone by darkening it as well as adding extra circuitry, not to mention the interaction between your amp and your carefully chosen speakers is no longer the same, so its never going to really be the perfect cranked sound you hear in your head.
As such, i just see them as more "stuff" to complicate your rig.
In a recording studio, where getting all the details of your sound matters, then you can isolate the amp and just crank it up and let it rip in its full glory-no need for an attenuator.
Live, where you are dealing with different sounding rooms, different sized crowds, and often different bands and all that that entails, the best overdrive pedal you can find to deliver the tone you want will do the job and do it with minimum fuss or lugging of gear.
 
Last edited:
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

You could...you know, get an Axe FX and record straight out. Get rid of all those old-a$$ amps. :laughing:
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

I love L-Pads (e.g. Dr.Z. Air Brake or Brake Lite which are basically Ken Fisher design as far as I know) for dB reduction upto 6dB... That may not be enough though. Then again, I am a very happy user of a Brake Lite in my Blues Jr.



B
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

dr.barlo said:
I love L-Pads (e.g. Dr.Z. Air Brake or Brake Lite which are basically Ken Fisher design as far as I know) for dB reduction upto 6dB... That may not be enough though. Then again, I am a very happy user of a Brake Lite in my Blues Jr.
Click to expand...

There's another design called the Bridged T that they use in HiFi that I've heard works well in guitar too.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

It just seems very wrong.
Does anyone who has actually used an attenuator for a year or so of frequent use still like it? Or an L-Pad?
Ive heard more say it was ok at first but then they tired of the tone suck and got rid of it.
Putting a clamp on a vintage Fender's nuts might be semi effective at first but in the end Its still very very wrong.
I would rather get a smaller amp or one that is capable of pleasing tones at low volume.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

BlackNut said:
It just seems very wrong.
Does anyone who has actually used an attenuator for a year or so of frequent use still like it? Or an L-Pad?
Ive heard more say it was ok at first but then they tired of the tone suck and got rid of it.
Putting a clamp on a vintage Fender's nuts might be semi effective at first but in the end Its still very very wrong.
I would rather get a smaller amp or one that is capable of pleasing tones at low volume.
Click to expand...

Eddie Van Halen used an L-pad from the output of his Marshall which fed an H&H power amp. Used that on all the Roth albums minus VH2.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

I still use my weber when I need to. if its a local gig ill use a different amp but if im travelling im only going to bring one amp ill bring the mass incase I need to knock down the volume.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

The earliest attenuators and even some modern ones are just plain bad for amps period...

If you want to use one on an old amp I'd suggest the Weber MASS...to the amp it's really no different than the output seeing a speaker.

As for wattage I spoke with Ted years ago about the MASS and he told me than that the 50 watters could take a bit more than 50, the 100's could handle more, even the 25's were more beefy than advertised because he knew guys with a 50 watt Marshall were going to buy the bare minimum 50 watt MASS and hope for the best!

Now, all of that said with a lot of these old amps what you will find out QUICKLY is that a LOT of the tone of them comes from speakers breaking up and that simply won't happen with an attenuator inline unless you are still really loud and only knocking off a few db's and in addition to that attenuators do skew the overall tone of the amp...the more attenuation you use the more it skews the sound.

Try one, you might dig it and you might hate it...me, I swore them off years ago as they just seemed to mess with my tone too much...that said, with my new amp build I might have to have one!!!
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

Actually, using a power soak or an attenuator is probably overall safer. The output transformer will get damaged if the load isn't right, such as when a speaker blew. You aren't going to blow a power soak as easily as a speaker can die.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

uOpt said:
Actually, using a power soak or an attenuator is probably overall safer. The output transformer will get damaged if the load isn't right, such as when a speaker blew. You aren't going to blow a power soak as easily as a speaker can die.
Click to expand...

Power Soaks are TERRIBLE for most amps...i'd NEVER use one on an amp that I cared to keep around.

A Weber MASS is nothing more than a speaker motor and to the amp runs just like a speaker...it's just a speaker w/o a cone.

As long as you set the impedance correctly there is no chance of harming the amp.
 
Re: Attenuators and vintage Fender amps.

the guy who invented fire said:
Power Soaks are TERRIBLE for most amps...i'd NEVER use one on an amp that I cared to keep around.

A Weber MASS is nothing more than a speaker motor and to the amp runs just like a speaker...it's just a speaker w/o a cone.

As long as you set the impedance correctly there is no chance of harming the amp.
Click to expand...

I think you are too optimistic about how much better the speaker motor is.

As the speaker motor moves in a real speaker, and is hindered from doing so by the mechanical resistance of the paper cone working against the air, a lot of electrical property changes influence how exactly power is being projected.

Just think of the current that is induced in a speaker not connected to an amp when you move the cone.

Furthermore, a large difference between solid state and tube last stages come from the high output impedance of the tube amp being unable to put the brakes on the speaker when the sound stops. That is a good thing as it loosens up the sound, makes it more interesting and less sounding like a dry slap in the face. This is lost even as you drive a speaker motor with no paper cone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top