Basic electric guitar question

[misterwhizzy]

When the pickup selector of a Les Paul, for example, is in the middle position, why is it not about twice as loud as either the neck or the bridge by either one of themselves? It would seem to me that the inductance of the two humbuckers would be summed at the jack and result in about twice the output, if the two signals are in phase, but this clearly is not what happens. Why not?

 

[dystrust]

Re: Basic electric guitar question

When the pickup selector of a Les Paul, for example, is in the middle position, why is it not about twice as loud as either the neck or the bridge by either one of themselves? It would seem to me that the inductance of the two humbuckers would be summed at the jack and result in about twice the output, if the two signals are in phase, but this clearly is not what happens. Why not?

A typical LP pickup selector combines the two pickups in parallel. If you have the option to put both humbuckers in series with each other it'll be louder, but not twice as loud.

 

[beaubrummels]

Basic electric guitar question

Doubling of power in an audio signal only provides 3db of boost, which is just around the baseline of a detectable difference to the human ear. It’s not twice as loud, but maybe “one louder”

Also the EQ changes in each position, so that could counter any detectable level difference.

 

[Ewizard]

Re: Basic electric guitar question

^^^^^^^^^ Exactly this. If in a perfect world the two signals could combine, you would have a +3db increase in level, but because the pickups are located at different places upon the length of the string there are cancellations that occur. So while +3db is the at best increase in gain, you can't count on it.

I prefer the signal strength to be the same in every position, so I find it a good thing that middle positions don't add gain.

 

[shadowfire90]

Re: Basic electric guitar question

DYSTrust nailed it. It is a parallel connection. It's a nice balance that works with any pickup set as at the end of the day it's like putting two resistors together. However you could put two pickups in series for a hotter tone. With really high output pickups meant for metal and hard rock it's not as night and day so it's a big reason it never caught on. Otherwise every ESP, most Ibanez and everything trying to cater to the metal crowd would be all for it.

If you want to check out what series tone across two pickups are like there is two examples
a telecaster with the 4 way blade the "illusive" 4th tone they add
or
Joe Gore (tonefiend) youtube video where he shows off Jimmy Page wiring on a project on a warmoth build he did. His is more of a contrast as he isn't using like a SD distortion mayhem set or whatever.

schematic wise for a les paul with a push pull pot check out what this one man nicknamed the megabucker.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Basic electric guitar question

For simplicity...
if two pups of equal output are played in parallel, the resultant measured output is about 1/2 of either alone or about 1/4 of the two in series.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Basic electric guitar question

schematic wise for a les paul with a push pull pot check out what this one man nicknamed the megabucker.

I'm partial to the version I came up with and installed in my LP. Jimmy Page wiring with 50s style tone controls and independent volumes:

 

[audiocheck]

Re: Basic electric guitar question

I'm partial to the version I came up with and installed in my LP. Jimmy Page wiring with 50s style tone controls and independent volumes:

Neck TONE pull puts Neck and Bridge in series utilizing only the Neck volume to control level (in Phase or out of phase, based on Bridge push/pull) This is unique.

Mistake on drawing at Neck Volume Push/pull. The pull has to send the red and white to ground. This shows red and white going to hot.

very cool though

 

[dystrust]

Re: Basic electric guitar question

Mistake on drawing at Neck Volume Push/pull. The pull has to send the red and white to ground. This shows red and white going to hot.

It isn't a mistake, I did that intentionally.

In my description I forgot to mention that the neck pickup splits to the screw coil instead of the slug, so the push-pull is connecting the red wire to the output with the green still grounded. The white and black are shorted to each other, which leaves them effectively out of the circuit. I made this additional change from typical JP wiring because I wanted the both split option to hum cancel.