Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

[dr0]

Hi. (Long time lurker, new member/poster) here.

I play in a three piece band doing classic rock with a punk edge and am, like the rest of you, a tone zealot
i've found that for the clubs we play amps around 50 Watts work best. My two go-to amps right now are a Marshall JCM 800 2024 2x12 combo and a Fender Bassman '59 Ltd. (reissue). These are easier to move than the 1/2 stack, and put out plenty our sound for most venues we play. The last time we did a large outdoor gig I took the Orange AD 140 half-stack, so that's the top-end of my amp arsenal. I play with a tele with a couple fuzz boxes.

So speakers output is either 2x12, 4x10 or 4x12 all driven by classic tubes.

What's the right kind of bass setup to "match" this. I'll add that in some clubs the PAs are pretty minimal, and are mostly used for vocals and some sound reinforcement on the drums, the guitar is >50% from my amp in these joints, sometimes going to 100%.

The bass player is currently using a Gallien-Krueger combo amp. It has 1x15 configuration and some ungodly bass-type power rating (750 watts??). I don't think that GK makes this particular model anymore, but still have ones pretty similar.

Going back to the good/old bad days looking at three piece bands usually the bass players Amps more or less matched the guitar players. Cream had dueling Marshall stacks, or double stacks. Etc.

What sort of amps (both generic in terms of speakers, like 4x12, etc) and specifically in terms of brands of bass amps do you think would "match" best with my setup. (Bass player plays a P-bass with S.D. Pickups. My second favorite Tele has a Seymore Duncan bridge PU in it, the "Jerry Donahue", I think it is.)

Thanks in advance.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

hard to say what is best. i gig with a 20w guitar amp and have a 1000w bass amp with a 4x10 and 1x15 cabs. for bass i dont think you can have too much power

 

[dg27]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

I've never been in a situation where a band tried to "match" amps. Everyone just used whatever they believed delivered the tone they wanted.

In terms of well-known bands having matched amps, keep in mind that in some cases manufacturers provided the amps. Ampeg gave a ton of amps to the Stones way back when and for that reason they toured with Ampegs for several years, starting in 1969. I have no idea whether that was the case with Cream and Marshalls, but it's certainly a possibility.

And though I agree with Jeremy that you can never have too much wattage for bass, my now-vintage Music Man 100B tube bass head (100W) always gave me plenty of cujones for the situations in which I played (clubs).

 

[dr0]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

I've never been in a situation where a band tried to "match" amps. Everyone just used whatever they believed delivered the tone they wanted.

In terms of well-known bands having matched amps, keep in mind that in some cases manufacturers provided the amps. Ampeg gave a ton of amps to the Stones way back when and for that reason they toured with Ampegs for several years, starting in 1969. I have no idea whether that was the case with Cream and Marshalls, but it's certainly a possibility.

And though I agree with Jeremy that you can never have too much wattage for bass, my now-vintage Music Man 100B tube bass head (100W) always gave me plenty of cujones for the situations in which I played (clubs).

Maybe I should clarify what I mean by match. I don't mean match brands so that there are nicely colored matching logo'd amps on stage.

What i mean is match in relative sound output. A 4x12" cab and 100 watt guitar amp seems to maybe require a bit more bass amp than a 1x15" combo bass amp (even if it's a high power one. It's just a matter of moving air at some point (which is why 4x12 and 4x10 and 2x12 are more popular than similar powered 1x12 and 1x10 combos among guitar players.)

Maybe no one else thinks about this? I'd feel odd going into a gig where I was playing a 1x12 combo and the bass player had a full Ampeg SVT with a refrigerator cabinet. And, I don't think it would sound good, either.

 

[chevyaddict83]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

Maybe I should clarify what I mean by match. I don't mean match brands so that there are nicely colored matching logo'd amps on stage.

What i mean is match in relative sound output. A 4x12" cab and 100 watt guitar amp seems to maybe require a bit more bass amp than a 1x15" combo bass amp (even if it's a high power one. It's just a matter of moving air at some point (which is why 4x12 and 4x10 and 2x12 are more popular than similar powered 1x12 and 1x10 combos among guitar players.)

Maybe no one else thinks about this? I'd feel odd going into a gig where I was playing a 1x12 combo and the bass player had a full Ampeg SVT with a refrigerator cabinet. And, I don't think it would sound good, either.

My first question is why wouldnt it sound good. Volume knob goes both ways. Get a nice carvin setup. 1000 watt head and 4x10 cab. Plenty of headroom

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[HiFiRebel]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

A 4x10 cab will push more air and sound good.

 

[dg27]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

I agree: More air is good.

I always like to have a 15" in the mix. I use Mesa Boogie cabs that are 2 X 10 + 1 X 15.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

Bi-amping works wonders for the bass.

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[HiFiRebel]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

I like the 15 and 10 combos as well. Take that advice. Much better.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

What i mean is match in relative sound output. A 4x12" cab and 100 watt guitar amp seems to maybe require a bit more bass amp than a 1x15" combo bass amp (even if it's a high power one. It's just a matter of moving air at some point (which is why 4x12 and 4x10 and 2x12 are more popular than similar powered 1x12 and 1x10 combos among guitar players.)

Maybe no one else thinks about this? I'd feel odd going into a gig where I was playing a 1x12 combo and the bass player had a full Ampeg SVT with a refrigerator cabinet. And, I don't think it would sound good, either.

for some styles a 4x12 or closed back 2x12 is much more desirable. for blues and roots music theres nothing wrong with a 1x12 combo. i use the same 20w 1x12 amp for almost everything from a 100 person club to a 10,000 person festival set. big shows usually have big pa so dont require a big amp. that said there is usually a backline for bass and its usually an ampeg svt4pro and 8x10 or something similar. i gig a fair amount and hauling a big heavy amp gets old quick. if a 1x12 amp gets it done, then i see no reason to haul my 85w head and 2x12 cab.

Bi-amping works wonders for the bass.

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thats so 80's

 

[Demanic]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

^^
It may be, but it still works. A 4x10 with aluminum cones handling the frequencies from 150hz and up, a 1x15 or 2x15 handling the bottom. Plenty of clarity and low end thump.

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[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

Volume knob goes both ways.

This x1000.

Unless your bassist is using an all-tube head and wants power tube distortion, the volume should not be on 10. If he thinks having it on 10 looks cool, have him paint 10s on every notch, or drill a fake volume knob and leave that on 10, or have the real volume knob relocated to the back of the head and leave the front one disconnected from the circuit and set it to 10.

That's the only reason I can think of why the bass would be needlessly louder than the guitar and drums, assuming that's the case.

With the available power options these days, at no time should a bass amp HAVE to be running at full blast to be heard.

750w may seem "ungodly" to you, but lower frequencies need more power than higher frequencies, which is why a guitarist can use a 20w amp live but a bass can't.


And if your bassist is happy with his/her bass tone, do not suggest a change of any sort unless the volume itself is just overpowering everything else, unless you have another band or bassist already lined up.

 

[BRHGM]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

Eric Clapton and Pete Townsend went deaf trying to compete with their bass players. Seriously, you need greater than three times the power of the guitar player to be heard. I have a friend in a bluegrass band who got an amp for her upright bass to be heard over a banjo, a fiddle and guitars and they aren't amplified. So go big or go home. Most bass amps today do have direct xlr outs for a PA. Like you said sometimes the PAs are weak.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

^^
It may be, but it still works. A 4x10 with aluminum cones handling the frequencies from 150hz and up, a 1x15 or 2x15 handling the bottom. Plenty of clarity and low end thump.

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ugh. aluminum cones? i have a swr 4x10 and ampeg 1x15 and can bi-amp with my head. it may have more clarity and thump but i dont like the tone as much as when running both cabs full range

 

[Demanic]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

That's the beauty of the world that we live in: You and I can each have what we like.

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[jeremy]

Re: Bass Amp "matches" for common Guitar Amps

thats the truth! honestly i barely use my bass amp. my bassist friends use it way more than i do but it sounds glorious