benefits of wrap around bridges?

[Supernautilus]

I've been looking to pickup up a guitar with P90s for my next mod project, and I noticed that some guitars with P90s have those one piece wrap around bridges, like Epiphones for example. I've never had one, but I've heard there are some negatives, mainly around tuning and intonation adjustment.

So what are the positives of wrap around bridges? Are there any, or it is just about vibes? Any info is welcome, thanks.

 

[xxxplorer]

I have a Tone Pros wrap around bridge on my Worth. It's adjustable just like a tune o matic. I like it. Not better or worse than my TOM bridges, but I wouldn't hesitate to use one again. Cleaner look is why I went with it. Feels and plays like a good TOM with out the strings behind it for me.

 

[jeremy]

the non-adjustable ones can present intonation issues, but an adjustable one doesnt have those issues. they feel similar to top wrapping a tom and tailpiece

 

[ICTGoober]

The main advantage is if you use a good one, you don't have to install a tailpiece.

 

[Supernautilus]

Ok thanks guys.

So, can any standard Epiphone-style wrap around bridge be upgraded to a better adjustable version without any modifications?

 

[jeremy]

i cant say 100% yes, but typically, yes

 

[beaubrummels]

The benefit is the strings are anchoring into the bridge itself, which is directly anchored into the body with huge studs; unlike a TOM where the strings rest on the a bridge sitting on little screws in inserts, then travel out to another tailpiece anchored into the body. So the sustain, tone and feel is a bit different. Whether it's better for you, you have to judge.

FWIW all the stop tails and single bar bridges I've used weren't that bad. You have to know how to intonate them. You adjust for the A and the B and take what you get on the rest. But they aren't so bad they are unplayable, otherwise, they wouldn't still be around after 60-70 years.

 

[Mincer]

The benefit is that it cost less to make the guitar. I can't think of a benefit that it gives over a more adjustable separate bridge and tailpiece.

 

[Supernautilus]

Well, a quick google search showed me this:

“Wraparound bridges offer several benefits, primarily related to enhanced sustain and a simpler design compared to other bridge types. They are known for transferring more string vibration energy to the guitar body, resulting in longer sustain. Their single-piece construction also simplifies string changes and can be more comfortable for some players.”

Makes sense I guess, but it could also be nonsense haha.

 

[Mincer]

I don't know how you would test that theory, though.

 

[Artie]

You want to be cognizant of the wood you'll be installing into. My "Bronze Series" Warlock has an Agathis body, which is fairly soft. The wrap-around bridge has pulled forward, crushing the wood in front. I imagine they knew this would happen when they built it, thus the big screws to push the bridge back.

 

[Securb]

Ouch!

 

[Supernautilus]

Yeah that kinda thing makes me nervous.

My only experience with one piece bridges is the Epiphone bass three point bridge. I heard horror stories about them pulled forward and out, so I epoxied the bushings on my EB-0 so they wouldn’t come out. I then took it a step further and installed a stop
tailpiece. The horizontal tension made it very hard to adjust, but the tailpiece eliminated this problem.

Actually, I bet I could just do the same thing with a guitar. Hmm…

 

[Supernautilus]

Here we go, found this on a site called Axlabs Hardware. Is there anything stopping me from just screwing in something like this behind an Epiphone style wraparound bridge?

 

[hamerfan]

Check the string spacing before you go!

 

[Artie]

Ouch!

Yeah that kinda thing makes me nervous.

It's not quite as bad as it looks. Other than cosmetically, it "settled" a long time ago. It hasn't moved in well over a decade. I got this from a forum bro for about a buck and a quarter. It's a fun little axe to play with and sounds good. I may mod the bridge. I don't know.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

A few points:

Yes, the intonation can be approximate, though for many close enough for rock'n'roll, and if you don't play expensive chords, especially up the neck, it might be fine. I find with the Epiphone lightning bar used nowadays has the treble strings raked forward too much, don't know why they did this.

Bot the plain and lightning bar versions are from an era of fat strings, so these days, if you're using 9s, for instance, the geometry makes it that the high E may not couple with the top of the bridge, so you get sitaring and pinging when you bend. A lot of people end up replacing those old Jr plain tailpieces at this point since they're worn out. If you use 10s or heavier, will probably be

Most of them (including Gibson ones) are made so the slot in the studs has a bit of a gap when everything is installed, causing it to lean forward under tension. This can exacerbate the aforementioned issue with the thinner strings. Over time, they can also collapse, like Artie's. In the old days, people would snip washers in half and jam them in the gap between the tailpiece ear and stud to try to reduce the angle.

My SG had this problem out of the gate, but I planned from the beginning to replace the whole thing.


My preferred solution for a wraparound is a version that can be fully intonated and with locking studs, so there's no leaning and it doesn't fall off when all the strings are off. I installed a Stewmac Golden Age/Faber Wraptonate and it's sweet (I replaced the bushings in the body also). There are plenty of options, like ToneProse, ABM, Schaller Signum etc.

 

[Artie]

My SG had this problem out of the gate . . .

I've never understood why they do tilt-back necks on slab-bodied guitars. I can understand on an LP, or a hollow or semi-hollow body. But I don't get it on your SG or my Warlock.

If someone knows, I'm all ears.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

I've never understood why they do tilt-back necks on slab-bodied guitars. I can understand on an LP, or a hollow or semi-hollow body. But I don't get it on your SG or my Warlock.

If someone knows, I'm all ears.

In part, it may be something that's just become part of the habitus of guitar making. I have a bolt on LP and it too has quite a bit of angle built in. On Gibsons, at any rate, this was transferred from the acoustic archtops (and ultimately violins), where these angles are necessary for string tension so you drive the top when the string is plucked. But, of course, with electric guitars, the best acoustic sound isn't the game as such.

Epiphones tend to have a steeper neck angle (but flatter headstock than a Gibson, at 14˚). I suspect this is done in part to allow for adjustment. Well, there's other stuff Epiphones have which don't make sense, like lighting bar pattern on the stock bridge, hah. On Gibson USA stuff, a lot of guitars use a Nashville bridge, which is chunkier in all dimensions and requires more of an angle for a basic setup to be achieved.

If you look at vintage Gibson SGs, they actually had a pretty shallow neck pitch (Custom Shop follows this too), less than 3˚ in some cases, and on Specials and Jrs, this resulted in a bridge that was basically decked. Because Gibsons had smaller frets in those days, if you need to get them levelled, there was no way of adjusting your way into playability after a certain point.

My SG has what I'd call medium wire, and because there is still a decent amount of adjustment in the bridge, there is accommodation for future fret levelling in this respect.

 

[Seashore]

Interesting reading, thanks. I've been playing Gibsons for most of my life and the 4°-ish neck angle is much more comfortable for me than a Strat-style flat neck joint. I get repetitive stress pain in my left shoulder from reaching out that little extra bit on a Strat or even shallower angled necks like my Schecter E1. The only solution there for me is to hold the guitar up pretty high, which works ok but takes some getting used to.