Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

Punkrot

New member
Hi everyone, this is my first post here, so please be gentle. :-)

I've been going crazy trying to figure out what pickups to put in my guitar. I've read and reread posts in the forum, watched YouTube videos galore, the whole nine yards.

Here's my setup and what I'm going for.

Guitar Specs:

I play an Epiphone Les Paul Baritone tuned to drop A with .14-.74 gauge strings and high action.

Body:

Mahogany Body
Carved maple top

Neck:

Set maple neck
Rosewood fingerboard with no inlays
27.75" Scale
1.68" nut width

Binding:

Single-ply body & neck

Electronics:

Alnico Classic & Alnico Hot humbucker pickups (both Alnico V, from what I understand)
1 Vol. 1 Tone
3-way selector switch


Genre:

As you might suspect from a guy with a drop tuned, jet black, baritone Les Paul, I play heavy music with lots of distortion—specifically melodic crust. I like my tone thick and warm and gigantic with diesel powered low-end brutality (His Hero is Gone, Fall of Efrafa, Martyrdod, Agrimonia, etc.). I do not like the typical buzzsaw metal sound—thus the Bari LP.

I play powerchords a lot, of course, but I also play just as many (if not more) "weird" chords with 2 or 3 or even 4 strings at once, and very infrequent single string action. No djent here. No shreddy metal leads.

The kind of music I play also uses the clean channel, always through the neck pickup, and for this I love huge, warm, sweet, melancholy tones. Piano-like may be a good phrase. I'm not sure if "vintage" is the word for this, but it very well could be. I dig that fat, buttery tone with all the fixin's.


Here's why I want to swap pickups:

The neck pickup in the Ep actually produces some great, fat, warm clean tones, and it's one of my favorite things about this guitar.

However for distorto-mode, I use the bridge pickup (the stock pups are mismatched, so the middle position is basically useless). The bridge gives me strong output and the tone is alright, but the definition—especially on the crazier chords—is pretty muddy. Kind of a "what the hell chord was that, exactly???" sort of a sound.

I want more clarity in the bridge—but not so much that everything is all crisp and shiny like someone juts broke the cellophane off of it. I want it to be very thick, but with the melody just peeking through, like a smoky alto (perhaps Maureen Forrester) belting out a baroque aria in a thunderstorm; or a lost gem of power shimmering in the depths of a dark pool.


My concerns with new pickups:

I don't want to drastically change the fundamental character of this guitar—like I said, I love it. But I do want more clarity in the bridge, and in general just some higher quality electronics.

I'm worried about high output pickups being too strong in my Baritone LP, and I'm worried about strong magnets warping my intonation and sustain.

On the other hand, I'm worried about vintage and mid-output pickups being too weak for what I have in mind.

I'm worried about ceramic magnets sounding too brittle and cold.

I'm worried about Alnico II being too mushy in the bottom end, though they are known for warmth, which intrigues me.

I'm worried about pickup options being poor choices for my tonewoods, body-shape, and low tunings. For example, the Pegasus/Sentient sounds great in the videos, but it's being played through basswood, 7-string, metal things bred for djent and shred. No LPs, no big strings, no big chords, and certainly no baritones—so perhaps their "sound good" won't sound good for me and my Bari LP.

And I've never heard an active set that I thought sounded good in any situation at all ever—I have absolutely no idea what people see in them.


Potential pickup options according to my research:

Neck: Alnico II Pro, 59 Neck, Whole Lotta Humbucker, Antiquity Neck, Jazz Neck, Sentient

Bridge: Alnico II Pro, Antiquity Bridge, Custom Custom, Custom 5, 59/Custom, Duncan Custom, JB, Invader, Distortion, Nazgul, Pegasus, Full Shred

As you can see—days of research have only expanded my list. :-<


Conclusion:

If you've read this far, I commend you. I'm just bewildered, and thus beseech you, oh Gods of Tone, to help me find the right pickups to help my guitar.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice you can throw my way.

And sorry for going on so long.

—Peter
 
Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

For the neck, full shred, screaming demon or sentient.

The full shred is a clearer jazz wind but still full and warm , while being lower output. The demon is warm and balanced while still very clear with just a little more, the sentient is a jazz/59 hybrid. The alnico 2 pro is a jazz with an a2 magnet.

For the bridge, distortion, alt 8, full shred

The distortion, JB and invader are all similar winds, the invader will be muddy though. The alt 8 is like a higher output JB, very fluid and buttery with a thick tone, the full shred is a custom 5 wind with more clarity and top end.

The les Paul will sound pretty thick and full and the big strings will have lots of output, so I would try to bring more definition and clarity out of the sound. Your not going to get to shrill with that guitar, but it will muddy up.

I have a lp baritone currently loaded with a full shred neck and an alt8 bridge, it sounds great. I have been thinking about putting a distortion in and moving the alt 8 and a demon to a Sg baritone to thicken it up.

Also get some 550k pots to keep it clear and not muddy.
 
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Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

Also magnet pull has no real affect on intonation and ceramics only sound cold to old jazz players. You can make any bridge pickup better by putting a ceramic mag in it. Need more, put a double thick one in. The full shred bridge with a double ceramic is a great pickup.
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

The Custom 5 will give you the clarity. It is a scooped sound, so you won't have muddy mid build-up under gain. For the neck, I'd go with a PAF type with more highs, maybe a Pearly Gates or Whole Lotta Humbucker. But I'd replace that bridge pickup first, as that seems like the biggest problem now.
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

I'd like to help but WTH is Melodic Crust Punk?
I had to look it up, on YouTube.. Here in Kentucky us old rockers call that Killin the Puppies music..
It fits all that angry music you kids play.. My oldest kid plays some stuff that sounds like puppies being disembowled mixed with demonic screams of anger..
I sadly have had to teach him some of that on guitar in some seriously low gutteral tuning..
I'm goin JB or Custom 5.. Just pullin that out of my ass but them two pickups cover about anything even Killin the Puppies
I say this because I put a GFS Alnico Fat PAT in his Cort and it was tuned to Drop A and it was exactly what he was looking for.
Sounded like a fart in a coffee can to me but WTH, I'm old and out of touch with the modern world..
Anyway lol! I think the JB or the Custom 5 is in that same vein as the GFS being Alnico 5 warmth and that's what you're after and if you're wanting some scooped mids in the pickup, I'd go Custom 5.
They are a really nice pickup for what you're after.. I wouldnt go Alnico 2 tuned that low..
I agree, I like very few ceramic magnet pickups.. I don't dig that shrill coldness either.
I turn 44 Saturday and I officially admit that I have finally gotten to old to understand the youth lol!
Never thought that day would come,I have always been the cool dad but not anymore..
 
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Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

I think I am older than the term crust-punk. Is that old school hardcore punk? If so... for a baritone, I like a tight pickup. Nazgul would be my choice. My baritone is loaded with qtuners v1.

I played a lot of punk, and hardcore.
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

For the neck, full shred, screaming demon or sentient.

The full shred is a clearer jazz wind but still full and warm , while being lower output. The demon is warm and balanced while still very clear with just a little more, the sentient is a jazz/59 hybrid. The alnico 2 pro is a jazz with an a2 magnet.

For the bridge, distortion, alt 8, full shred

The distortion, JB and invader are all similar winds, the invader will be muddy though. The alt 8 is like a higher output JB, very fluid and buttery with a thick tone, the full shred is a custom 5 wind with more clarity and top end.

The les Paul will sound pretty thick and full and the big strings will have lots of output, so I would try to bring more definition and clarity out of the sound. Your not going to get to shrill with that guitar, but it will muddy up.

I have a lp baritone currently loaded with a full shred neck and an alt8 bridge, it sounds great. I have been thinking about putting a distortion in and moving the alt 8 and a demon to a Sg baritone to thicken it up.

Also get some 550k pots to keep it clear and not muddy.

These are some great suggestions. I kinda had my eye on the Distortion (and Pegasus), as well as the Sentient as lower output pickups geared toward heavy, downtuned stuff. However, with the Pegasus/Sentient, I was worried that these pickups seem to only be appearing in basswood guitars, and I figured there might be a reason for this. In some of the clips, the Sentient and Distortion sound very similar to me. I hadn't considered the Demon… (Damn, now the list is longer…)

I've seen a lot of folks recommend JB and Jazz Neck for Les Pauls, but I'm worried that they might be too bright. However I think you made a great point there—this guitar already has beefiness, but needs more clarity.

However, I must say that I definitely do find the ceramic pups to sound cold and kinda harsh. Maybe for a neck pickup doomed to "kill the puppies" (as Shooter.566 describes—LOL), that's good. But I'm very leery of the ceramics at this point.

Thanks for the awesome feedback!
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

The Custom 5 will give you the clarity. It is a scooped sound, so you won't have muddy mid build-up under gain. For the neck, I'd go with a PAF type with more highs, maybe a Pearly Gates or Whole Lotta Humbucker. But I'd replace that bridge pickup first, as that seems like the biggest problem now.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I've gotta say though that I was under the impression that more mids would help clarity, but maybe not…?

I'm definitely feeling PAF for the neck, though…

Between the Pearly and the WLH, which is a better Les Paul and/or downtuned pup?
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's punk rock; use whatever you can steal.
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

I have an invader set in an LTD H1001NT.
I play a lot of the old metallica stuff I like with it. Exactly what I am looking for for that old metal tone.
It sucks in drop tuning, I dropped it to C and it's almost like a subwoofer the bass is so boomy.
It loses its tight percussive quality and turns into a bass when tuned low.
I'd really advise against the invaders for baritone and extreme dropped tunings.
I really have to mess with the lows and the resonance knob on my 5150iii to dial that boom out and make it punch.
It may be my amp? I don't know, all I know is the lows are thunderous on the invader bridge. The neck is sweet, its really tight and fluid..
It's one of a few ceramic pickups I do like..
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

I'd like to help but WTH is Melodic Crust Punk?
I had to look it up, on YouTube.. Here in Kentucky us old rockers call that Killin the Puppies music..
It fits all that angry music you kids play.. My oldest kid plays some stuff that sounds like puppies being disembowled mixed with demonic screams of anger..
I sadly have had to teach him some of that on guitar in some seriously low gutteral tuning..
I'm goin JB or Custom 5.. Just pullin that out of my ass but them too pickups cover about anything even Killin the Puppies
I say this because I put a GFS Alnico Fat PAT in his Cort and it was tuned to Drop A and it was exactly what he was looking for.
Sounded like a fart in a coffee can to me but WTH, I'm old and out of touch with the modern world..
Anyway lol! I think the JB or the Custom 5 is in that same vein as the GFS being Alnico 5 warmth and that's what you're after and if you're wanting some scooped mids in the pickup, I'd go Custom 5.
They are a really nice pickup for what you're after.. I wouldnt go Alnico 2 tuned that low..
I agree, I like very few ceramic magnet pickups.. I don't dig that shrill coldness either.
I turn 44 Saturday and I officially admit that I have finally gotten to old to understand the youth lol!
Never thought that day would come,I have always been the cool dad but not anymore..

LOL! Thanks for this awesome reply!

This is going to be pretty simplified, but here goes nuthin'…

Crust punk is what happened to late 70's/early 80's "hardcore punk" in the mid 80's when it started getting crossbred with Scandinavian metal, thus creating a minimalist, apocalyptic metal type sound with no leads and a greater emphasis on the bass and lower mid frequencies.

Bands like Discharge and the Varukers were playing super political, fast, angry punk with shouted vocals on augmented/diminished blues scales in the early 80's. Around 85-ish, the first crust bands played almost exclusively on chromatic scales (or the blues scales mentioned before), with faster drummers, more distortion, and screaming/growling vocalists.

By the early/mid 90's, things started to get more refined. Folks like Skitsystem, State of Fear, and Sh!*list continued the chromatic thing beautifully and with a vengeance, but bands like His Hero is Gone and From Ashes Rise (both from Memphis, actually) started mixing melody into the brutality (checkout Like Weeds by His Hero is Gone and Reaction by From Ashes Rise for solid examples). HHIG in particular also used a lot of tempo changes with passages that were quite slow. By the late 90's, the melodic thing took off in the scene, and a lot of crust bands like Schifosi, Martyrdod, End of All, Ictus, etc. started playing blazingly fast crust with tons of brutality but also soaring melody lines mixed in with the chaos (checkout Utanforskapet by Martyrdod and Into the Margins by Schifosi for great examples of this style).

Then in the 2000's, Fall of Efrafa showed up and played slow melodic crust in 4/4 and 3/4 tempos, creating a trilogy of albums which retold the destruction of the "Efrafa" society in Richard Adams' Watership Down—and downtempo melodic crust was born (a great example of their style is the song Dominion Theology—heads up though, it's a 20 minute long epic, and worth every second of your time to listen to; also The Decay by Agrimonia is a fine example of a different take on this style).

All that said—regardless of the style, crust punk lyrics generally focus on revolution, equality, human and animal rights, fighting racism/sexism/homophobia, protecting the environment against corporate greed, and the general apocalyptic destruction of civilization and humanity as a whole. (Not that you can understand a word of it—LOL. "RRRREEEEEAAAARRGGGGHHHHH AAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Good stuff!!!

Official TLDR version:
Metal = white noise with some dude bellowing about the end of the world and being eaten by zombies
Crust = brownian noise with a dude and/or chick screaming about the end of the world and being vegetarian

Okay—class is over!

So, what pickups will help my Baritone Les Paul champion the oppressed while simultaneously lamenting the inevitable doom of humanity??? LOL!

Thanks for all this amazing help, Tone Gods!!
 
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Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

I think I am older than the term crust-punk. Is that old school hardcore punk? If so... for a baritone, I like a tight pickup. Nazgul would be my choice. My baritone is loaded with qtuners v1.

I played a lot of punk, and hardcore.

(For the crusty lowdown, check my previous post.)

Have you tried the Nazgul in an LP?

I'm worried that it's geared for basswood…
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

I have an invader set in an LTD H1001NT.
I play a lot of the old metallica stuff I like with it. Exactly what I am looking for for that old metal tone.
It sucks in drop tuning, I dropped it to C and it's almost like a subwoofer the bass is so boomy.
It loses its tight percussive quality and turns into a bass when tuned low.
I'd really advise against the invaders for baritone and extreme dropped tunings.
I really have to mess with the lows and the resonance knob on my 5150iii to dial that boom out and make it punch.
It may be my amp? I don't know, all I know is the lows are thunderous on the invader bridge. The neck is sweet, its really tight and fluid..
It's one of a few ceramic pickups I do like..

Excellent advice! I was afraid that might happen with the Invaders in my bari LP… I need tone that's fat, not flabby—LOL.
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

(For the crusty lowdown, check my previous post.)

Have you tried the Nazgul in an LP?

I'm worried that it's geared for basswood…

LP no. Mahogany, poplar, and Limba, yes. I haven't tried it in basswood, largely because I HATE the sound of basswood. The Nazgul would work beautifully. The black winter would work well as well. I found the invader to be really flubby. The BW is largely flat in the best possible way. The Nazgul is quite possibly the most aggressive pickup I have ever played.
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

i have titans in my schecter but i play metal with, although crust is proto-speed metal. its kinda flat sounding and tight. with my orange it has a big muff sound cranked
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

To my ears, mids don't help when trying to get clear sounds. Clear sounds to me would be bass and treble, but not as much mids. Like a 59, Jazz, or for higher output, a Custom 5.
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

full shred is a clearer jazz wind but still full and warm , while being lower output

Not sure if you meant the full shred neck is lower output than a jazz, or if that was just grammatically ambiguous, but in any case, it is definitely not. It is bright and tight, moreso than just about any neck pickup, but low output, it is not. Comes across as being at least as hot, and probably hotter, than a '59n or jazzn. Voltage is probably similar but the frequency spectrum of the FSn makes it play hotter.
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

(For the crusty lowdown, check my previous post.)

Have you tried the Nazgul in an LP?

I'm worried that it's geared for basswood…

I'll 2nd Gibson 1964 here. I'd go with the nazgul & also recommend the sentient

I have the nazgul / sentient in my 7 string Ibanez arz307. It's a single cut all mahogany set neck. The guitar is inherently dark but the nazgul works well to tame the low end of the guitar and bring out the high end. Same for the sentient in the neck, it's clear but can get doomy under a loot of gain if needed. The nazgul is great for any aggressive style of music

I've played a lot of hardcore and punk in my life also, styles ranging from nofx and pennywise to Minor Threat & Agnostic front up through the heavier styles like hatebreed & bury your dead. The nazgul can cover a lot of ground in within the punk/hardcore/metal genres.

~
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

I'll 2nd Gibson 1964 here. I'd go with the nazgul & also recommend the sentient

I have the nazgul / sentient in my 7 string Ibanez arz307. It's a single cut all mahogany set neck. The guitar is inherently dark but the nazgul works well to tame the low end of the guitar and bring out the high end. Same for the sentient in the neck, it's clear but can get doomy under a loot of gain if needed. The nazgul is great for any aggressive style of music

I've played a lot of hardcore and punk in my life also, styles ranging from nofx and pennywise to Minor Threat & Agnostic front up through the heavier styles like hatebreed & bury your dead. The nazgul can cover a lot of ground in within the punk/hardcore/metal genres.

~

Hmm…

Even so, the ceramic magnet in the Nazgul kinda deters me. However, I understand that the Pegasus is sort of an Alnico 5 version of the Nazgul, so maybe that would be a good match? The Pegasus/Sentient are comparatively low output for a "metal" pickup set. Can anyone speculate as to whether or not these would be good in the Baritone LP?
 
Re: Best pickups for a Les Paul Baritone (for melodic crust punk)

To my ears, mids don't help when trying to get clear sounds. Clear sounds to me would be bass and treble, but not as much mids. Like a 59, Jazz, or for higher output, a Custom 5.

That's good to know. I'll keep my eye on the more scooped pickups, then.

At this point I'm pretty torn between a classic (and possibly mismatched) set like a 59/Custom 5 in the bridge + Whole Lotta Humbucker/Alnico II Pro in the neck, and a modern set like the Pegasus/Sentient…
 
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