Blend idea

[rocketsoul]

I don't really plan on doing this anytime soon, but would it be possible to control a coil-split with a blend pot? So 0 would be one coil, 10 would be the other, and 5 would be both? I'm probably missing some fundamental aspect of how blend pots work, but it's better than actual thinking about what the teacher's saying in class.

Also, does anyone know if blend pots have a thing where they "click" in the middle and kind of stay there? I dont really know how to explain what I mean... like a mechanism that makes it stay in the middle unless you apply a little more force.

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

Yeah, I believe this should work. There's another thread here somewhere where I posted a diagram showing how to do that, but for some reason, I deleted the pic from my server. When I get home, I'll repost it.

 

[rocketsoul]

Re: Blend idea

bump. I searched for the thread, but I can't seem to find it. Could someone point me in the right direction/explain how to do this?

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

Here's the basic idea:

I haven't done this myself yet, so I'm not sure what values of pot would work best. If you used an actual "blend pot", it might look like this:

The green wire goes to one end of one pot. The red wire goes to the center of that same. The black wire goes to the other end of the other pot, and the white wire goes to the center of that section. The two centers are then tied together. (Cyan line.)

This is all theoretical though. I haven't actually ever done this . . . yet.

Artie

 

[Kev]

Re: Blend idea

I know you can definitly buy pots which click in the middle, my mates got one on his rather expensive warwick bass.

So that'll keep a perfect coil balence then i guess! :cool3:

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Blend idea

This mod works great! I have it on dual blade joe bardens and just did the same mod with a JB, Crusier, and Cool rail- You get a lot of between sounds and it takes a surpsingly small amount of 2nd coil for noise reduction- Look up under spin-a-split on the duncan site-

Question for those of you who understand electronics- I have always wondered why this also works for multiple pups off of the same pole? In other words, in position 2, my JB and Cruiser are both on and if I roll 1/2 off, I am getting 1.5 coils out of each one- This makese sense, but why is there not 'crosstalk' accross the coils of the 2 pups?

In other words signal comes in on the north coil of the Crusier, goes to the blend pot where it joins up with the center leads from the jb- Some of the signal is grounded out, but some of it contiues through the south pole of the Cruuiser-

But what makes the signal 'go' to the cruiser ciol? The center leads are all common, why doesn't some of this signa; go to the south pole of the JB as well?


I've wondered this for years- It really works great, but for the life of me I can't figure out what it doesn't create some strange phase cancelations as a result-

 

[rocketsoul]

Re: Blend idea

thank you guys so much!

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

This mod works great! I have it on dual blade joe bardens and just did the same mod with a JB, Crusier, and Cool rail- You get a lot of between sounds and it takes a surpsingly small amount of 2nd coil for noise reduction- Look up under spin-a-split on the duncan site-

Question for those of you who understand electronics- I have always wondered why this also works for multiple pups off of the same pole? In other words, in position 2, my JB and Cruiser are both on and if I roll 1/2 off, I am getting 1.5 coils out of each one- This makese sense, but why is there not 'crosstalk' accross the coils of the 2 pups?

In other words signal comes in on the north coil of the Crusier, goes to the blend pot where it joins up with the center leads from the jb- Some of the signal is grounded out, but some of it contiues through the south pole of the Cruuiser-

But what makes the signal 'go' to the cruiser ciol? The center leads are all common, why doesn't some of this signa; go to the south pole of the JB as well?


I've wondered this for years- It really works great, but for the life of me I can't figure out what it doesn't create some strange phase cancelations as a result-

I'm not certain that I understand what you're asking here. Are you using one pot to "split" two pickups?

Can you describe how you have this wired up?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Blend idea

Yep, Actually using 1 pot to spilt 3 pups- My Zion was wired that way when I got it and just reproduced it on my parker-

In other words the center leads for all 3 pups are joined at the pot- I asked on another board why this works and those with the heavy electronics background said it would work- And it does- I just don't understand why there's no 'blending' going on-

Or maybe there is and that's part of the charm of this mod cause I really, really like it-

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

If the center wires of all three pups are joined together, there is definitely a blending of all three pups happening. It would be physically impossible for it not to be. Electricity doesn't know where its supposed to go. It goes where you guide it.

It sounds to me like you have 3 coils in parallel all the time. You then switch the "other" coils with the selector switch.

If it sounds good, its ok. Just seems like an odd thing to do.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Blend idea

Thanks artie- u confirmed the crosspoliniztion that i thought must be happening and it does sound good-

just to be clear I'm pretty sure they are not paralell and 'on' all the time as there is a big difference in 5 way settings and it's breaking the + on the unused pup(s)

but when 2 pups are selected i think the coils are still series- just some of the north from pup 2 will flow through south of both pups and visa versa -
thx for input-

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

just to be clear I'm pretty sure they are not paralell and 'on' all the time as there is a big difference in 5 way settings and it's breaking the + on the unused pup(s)

but when 2 pups are selected i think the coils are still series- just some of the north from pup 2 will flow through south of both pups and visa versa -
thx for input-

Here's what's happening: you've inadvertently done, with three pups, something that I've done on purpose with two. Its a cool sound, but you need to understand whats happening.

Look at this diagram:

In the top half is the way one might draw a normal humbucker. On the bottom, I've just rotated one coil around to the left, so that they're inline, rather than stacked. Its still a normal humbucker.

So, using that technique, three humbuckers in a Strat might look like this:

The switches on the right just indicate any style of switch. Probably a 5-way.
What you've done is added the blue line:

One coil of all three pups is on all the time, and in parallel. Your 5-way is just selecting the "other" coil that's connected to that parallel trio, in series. Thats why it sounds different. Its the same thing I've done with the Lil59 (neck) and Cool Rails (bridge) of my Strat. Its an interesting sound.

But just so you understand, you have three coils on, and in parallel, all the time. Its not a bad idea. It might even be revolutionary.

Artie

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Blend idea

egads- when u draw it it makes complete sense!

What confuses me is how it sounds-
1. sounds brdige like
2. extreme quack
3. like a mid should sound
4. lite quack
5. like a neck should sound

Of course the more i roll the coil tap the more diffent in between sound i find and i could imagine that is some kind of phase canceltion-

but if i go to full roll off or no roll off there is still extreme differnces in all 5 posions- if all 3 pups are on why do the positions still sound different? Is it because the 2 unconnected pups are manfiesting their sound that exits through a different final coil in each position? Now that you've pointed out what I've done im amazed it works at all!

Whats funny is that everyone who plays my strat and now my parker just love the sounds- my bassist just asked me to do this mod to an old fender bullet- none of had any idea how weird this actually is- One of you guys will have to try this to expain why it seems to sound so good-

thx for taking the time to beak this down- i didn't have a clue until your schematic!

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

They sound different because you're still switching the "a" side of the pickups in and out. Its only the "b" side thats on all the time.

I did the same thing with my Strat, except that I only used the neck and bridge. Its undone now, just because I wanted to try something else, but it was a cool sound.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Blend idea

ok, now you've really got me thinking- I love these sounds, but is there an easy way to access traditional wiring for a compare and contrast? Some kind of 3p2t switch between the center wires and the coil roll off that would allow me to ground out the centers independantly in one direction, but allow me to throw the swtich and get this common coil mode?

Can't think of an easy way to do this as I don't want to add any switches- are there any push pull pots that might let me try this?

Thx again for claering this up and giving me some new (traditional) combinations to think about!

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

Look at the diagram again with the blue line. You only need to break two connections, so a standard push/pull pot would do the trick nicely. Or any DPDT switch would do it, and it would still allow the spin-a-split to affect one pickup only. Like the bridge, for instance.

Let me know if you need that drawn out. I could cover that tomorrow, or soon.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Blend idea

Artie-

Big big thanks- You have really made my week! Wife outa town dont have practice until tues night, so I gotta do this mod! Big, big thanks!

Once you said 2 wires would have to change, I think I got the idea- I'm really bad at drawing and I realize now that I should have had the 'inputs' going to the center of the switch instead of what i drew, but consider this an extension of your diagrams foucsing on the important parts- Do I have this correct?

Amazing what asking a simple question can do- And considering I am alread nuts about the sounds I've got, I can't wait to see what I get with 'traditional' sounds!

Thanks millions and will let you know how this turns out- might turn into a postable, accidential mod

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

You actually made it more complicated than it need be. :laugh2:

You don't need the top two connections. Give me a moment or two and I'll draw it up.

Stay tuna-ed.

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

Here I've added the SD colors, and labeled the three points A, B, and C. Connect them to a push/pull, or DPDT switch like so:

If you want normal humbucker operation when pushed, move the "C" line to the top terminals. Remember, you always keep each pups red/white wires together. The C terminal continues on to the spin-a-split pot.

Also, just substititue A, B, or C for wichever pup you want to stay on the pot. That one becomes the "C".

Does this make sense? :laugh2:

Edit: Just to add a bit of clarity - when the pot switch is pushed, you have the diagram with the blue line. When its pulled, the blue line disappears.

 

[Artie]

Re: Blend idea

In fact, to make it a bit easier, if you're using the same push/pull pot for the spin-a-split, just do this:

You have bridge spin-a-split all the time. Pull the knob to engage the three-way spin-a-split.