Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
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Matt42
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I'm definitely in the small amps camp. Easier to carry, and while I've played a few unmiced gigs, and even then, my amp was only on 3.5 or 4 (out of 12). I can see the occasional need for a big stack, but for me owning one would be counter productive. I can comfortably get everything for an out of town show into my Suburu, that includes my amp, guitars, pedals and a change of clothes, my g/f's fiddle, viola, mando, amp, pedals and a change of clothes, plus our dog and ourselves. If I had a bigger amp, those car rides to towns two or three hours away would be unbearable. Also most of our stages are tiny, I have a hard enough time fitting a HRDIII, not sure where I'd put a 4x12.
I'm definitely in the small amps camp. Easier to carry, and while I've played a few unmiced gigs, and even then, my amp was only on 3.5 or 4 (out of 12). I can see the occasional need for a big stack, but for me owning one would be counter productive. I can comfortably get everything for an out of town show into my Suburu, that includes my amp, guitars, pedals and a change of clothes, my g/f's fiddle, viola, mando, amp, pedals and a change of clothes, plus our dog and ourselves. If I had a bigger amp, those car rides to towns two or three hours away would be unbearable. Also most of our stages are tiny, I have a hard enough time fitting a HRDIII, not sure where I'd put a 4x12.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I admit I don't need a 4x12 for what I do, but the head stacks so nicely on top of it. I don't have to bend down to touch anything on it. And I have two different kinds of speakers in the cab, with separate inputs that let me use one or the other, or both, just by reconnecting the speaker cables. It's kind of like having two 2x12 cabs glued together.
That said, a good 1x12 combo will play louder and sound better than a bad half-stack. I would know; I've had both.
I admit I don't need a 4x12 for what I do, but the head stacks so nicely on top of it. I don't have to bend down to touch anything on it. And I have two different kinds of speakers in the cab, with separate inputs that let me use one or the other, or both, just by reconnecting the speaker cables. It's kind of like having two 2x12 cabs glued together.
That said, a good 1x12 combo will play louder and sound better than a bad half-stack. I would know; I've had both.
DankStar
Her Little Mojo Minion
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
good point about heads fitting. I don't really need a halfstack or even a 1/4 stack, but when I see a Marshall mkiii head going for $500, come on, the gears start turning, and a baby egnator isn't going to satisfy that urge when you look at bang for the buck and real marshall growl.
Good lord I'm starting to sound like Jerry.
good point about heads fitting. I don't really need a halfstack or even a 1/4 stack, but when I see a Marshall mkiii head going for $500, come on, the gears start turning, and a baby egnator isn't going to satisfy that urge when you look at bang for the buck and real marshall growl.
Good lord I'm starting to sound like Jerry.
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I am loving these blog posts by experienced and respected forum brothers.
It feels better hearing this type of editorial content from someone I can see as a peer than reading "Why HafStax Rawk" by Dave Mustaine or "Stadium Gigs with a Princeton" by Bill Frisell
I am loving these blog posts by experienced and respected forum brothers.
It feels better hearing this type of editorial content from someone I can see as a peer than reading "Why HafStax Rawk" by Dave Mustaine or "Stadium Gigs with a Princeton" by Bill Frisell
Psykel
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I generally preffer lower-wattage amps. The only high-power amp I'd consider (and damn am I considering hard - it'll be my next amp after the one I'm getting soon) is the Orange OR50, with a 4x12 or 2x12 cab. Not more than one cab. It's half sound and half aestetics for me. I think high-power dual 4x12 rigs are too testosterone for me.
I generally preffer lower-wattage amps. The only high-power amp I'd consider (and damn am I considering hard - it'll be my next amp after the one I'm getting soon) is the Orange OR50, with a 4x12 or 2x12 cab. Not more than one cab. It's half sound and half aestetics for me. I think high-power dual 4x12 rigs are too testosterone for me.
Van Noord
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
Yeah, I've heard all this before. But it's the same thing how I don't want to drive a small car. People say "It's better on gas, you can still get to your destination just the same as a big car/tuck, they're easier to park/find parking... blah blah."
I don't want a small car. Had one, sick and tired of the lack of internal room, capability, low proximity to the road. They are puny, and uninspiring to drive. Get it?
Yeah, I've heard all this before. But it's the same thing how I don't want to drive a small car. People say "It's better on gas, you can still get to your destination just the same as a big car/tuck, they're easier to park/find parking... blah blah."
I don't want a small car. Had one, sick and tired of the lack of internal room, capability, low proximity to the road. They are puny, and uninspiring to drive. Get it?
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
Why defend any size of amplifier ? What is more important is the right amplifier for the right job. Some acts/musical styles/venues will call for big amps. Others will suit small amps. My personal feeling is that a serious player will own a few different sized amps and use discretion about which one (or two) to carry to a given gig.
Why defend any size of amplifier ? What is more important is the right amplifier for the right job. Some acts/musical styles/venues will call for big amps. Others will suit small amps. My personal feeling is that a serious player will own a few different sized amps and use discretion about which one (or two) to carry to a given gig.
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I personally need a fullstack, but thats just me. I dont need to be respected, I just need to Rawk.
Nothing rocks like a fullstack 100 watts through 8x12" speakers. I can respect someone not wanting a 100 watt fullstack for whatever reason, and partucularly not needing it for s specific application, but ya shouldnt knock it till youve tried it.
See, ya gotta have at least 50 , or in my case 100 watts to drive the 8x12's properly, and ya gotta have 8x12's, so you can get 4 of those speakers up in the air where it can melt your facxe.
No it doesnt have to be deafeningly loud either.
Yes, this porridge is Just right, which admittedly , is too loud for your average nancy boy.
I personally need a fullstack, but thats just me. I dont need to be respected, I just need to Rawk.
Nothing rocks like a fullstack 100 watts through 8x12" speakers. I can respect someone not wanting a 100 watt fullstack for whatever reason, and partucularly not needing it for s specific application, but ya shouldnt knock it till youve tried it.
See, ya gotta have at least 50 , or in my case 100 watts to drive the 8x12's properly, and ya gotta have 8x12's, so you can get 4 of those speakers up in the air where it can melt your facxe.
No it doesnt have to be deafeningly loud either.
Yes, this porridge is Just right, which admittedly , is too loud for your average nancy boy.
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everdrone
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I have a 50 watt head that has a built in attenuator, so it roars at any volume.
I use a 212PPC cab, but like 90%+++ of the bands I see have a half or full stack. I watch rock and metal bands every weekend or every other weekend. I have seen Periphery and Animals as Leaders; both use the axefxII but both also use 412 cabs.
so ya, I cannot fit a 412 in my car, or a 410 guitar cab which would block my rear view if it was big. but I could fit another 212PPC cab in my car, so I am eventually gonna buy that. Cause I need to rock a big outdoor show? no. mainly just for looks and stage presence, to keep up with the joneses. but also to pressurize the stage. If the soundguy says turn down, Ill just attenuate or unplug a 212 cab.
I have a 50 watt head that has a built in attenuator, so it roars at any volume.
I use a 212PPC cab, but like 90%+++ of the bands I see have a half or full stack. I watch rock and metal bands every weekend or every other weekend. I have seen Periphery and Animals as Leaders; both use the axefxII but both also use 412 cabs.
so ya, I cannot fit a 412 in my car, or a 410 guitar cab which would block my rear view if it was big. but I could fit another 212PPC cab in my car, so I am eventually gonna buy that. Cause I need to rock a big outdoor show? no. mainly just for looks and stage presence, to keep up with the joneses. but also to pressurize the stage. If the soundguy says turn down, Ill just attenuate or unplug a 212 cab.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I agree with every word.
I'm getting the best sound I've ever gotten in my 45 year musical career right now, and all I'm using is a pair of 22 watt Deluxe Reverbs and pedal board with three great effects on it. And guess what? Usually even those DR's are to loud if I turn 'em up passed 4 or 5.
Jeff Beck always gets a great sound and he's the only rock guitarist I can think of who just keeps getting better and better. What he's blowing through now is 2 or 3 Fender Pro Juniors: 15 watt amps each with a single 10" speaker.
I love playing through two small amps. I love the way my guitar sustains without needing overdrive and the way the sound surrounds and wraps around me...and I love the way the music and my band sounds when everyone in the band can hear each other and respond to each other's playing.
These days it's just not necessary to play so loud that it makes you and the audience permanently deaf. These days, you can get that same sound at reasonable volumes.
Boys will be boys - so be a man. Take off the uniform, take off the gang colors and quit caring about what a bunch of deluded members of your old gang thinks is cool.
Turn that guitar down and make a joyful noise.
Music should be a healing thing - not a destructive thing.
Really good musicians who play instruments other than guitar (piano, horns, percussion, etc.) like playing with us guitarists a lot more when we show our musical maturity by turning down, so that we can all hear each other and play together.
I agree with every word.
I'm getting the best sound I've ever gotten in my 45 year musical career right now, and all I'm using is a pair of 22 watt Deluxe Reverbs and pedal board with three great effects on it. And guess what? Usually even those DR's are to loud if I turn 'em up passed 4 or 5.
Jeff Beck always gets a great sound and he's the only rock guitarist I can think of who just keeps getting better and better. What he's blowing through now is 2 or 3 Fender Pro Juniors: 15 watt amps each with a single 10" speaker.
I love playing through two small amps. I love the way my guitar sustains without needing overdrive and the way the sound surrounds and wraps around me...and I love the way the music and my band sounds when everyone in the band can hear each other and respond to each other's playing.
These days it's just not necessary to play so loud that it makes you and the audience permanently deaf. These days, you can get that same sound at reasonable volumes.
Boys will be boys - so be a man. Take off the uniform, take off the gang colors and quit caring about what a bunch of deluded members of your old gang thinks is cool.
Turn that guitar down and make a joyful noise.
Music should be a healing thing - not a destructive thing.
Really good musicians who play instruments other than guitar (piano, horns, percussion, etc.) like playing with us guitarists a lot more when we show our musical maturity by turning down, so that we can all hear each other and play together.
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sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I was expecting defense of the low-wattage amp... a point which, on its face, I can't disagree with. There are many places where a low-wattage amp is both convenient and appropriate.
What I just read though was mostly just the exact sentiment I wrote my original article to refute. If I really wanted to argue my case against this one, all I'd have to do is copy & paste my amp article into the comments.
I was expecting defense of the low-wattage amp... a point which, on its face, I can't disagree with. There are many places where a low-wattage amp is both convenient and appropriate.
What I just read though was mostly just the exact sentiment I wrote my original article to refute. If I really wanted to argue my case against this one, all I'd have to do is copy & paste my amp article into the comments.
Ascension
Well-known member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I have rocked both ways but the best over all tones I have ever gotten out front were running a 1/12 combo or a head through a small 1/12 cab miced. You can never really get the mix right running massive stage levels and the mix always sounds better if you are letting the sound guy do his job.
I still love standing in front of a 100 watt stack with my pants legs flapping from the pure sound pressure but only for a few minuets! After that it get's big time tiring to play at brutal levels and where are you going to do this without killing the front 2 rows??
Most of the time today you see me running a 25 Watt Zinky Blue velvet 1/12 combo. Frankly I'm always blown away with the tones I hear from that little amp when I record my gigs with the little beast so----.
I have rocked both ways but the best over all tones I have ever gotten out front were running a 1/12 combo or a head through a small 1/12 cab miced. You can never really get the mix right running massive stage levels and the mix always sounds better if you are letting the sound guy do his job.
I still love standing in front of a 100 watt stack with my pants legs flapping from the pure sound pressure but only for a few minuets! After that it get's big time tiring to play at brutal levels and where are you going to do this without killing the front 2 rows??
Most of the time today you see me running a 25 Watt Zinky Blue velvet 1/12 combo. Frankly I'm always blown away with the tones I hear from that little amp when I record my gigs with the little beast so----.
Bludave
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
The guys that I grew up listening to were Hendrix & Clapton, Page, Beck. You get the idea. ALL of these guys used a wall of Marshall amps, but even back then I knew I didn't need it. I was playing bars, nit stadiums. On very rare occasions I would get the opportunity to play an outside gig and be able to "dust off" the stack. The Fact is in todays musical world PA systems do a lot more then carry a vocalist. Every amp is miked & evry singer is miked. Everything is going through the PA. This gives you a better overall balance and most importantly a good stage volume. I can't imagine how loud it must have been for Hendrix or Led Zepplin on stage. How can you hear anything that the other musicians are doing when the volume is that loud. All I hear is mush when things get too loud. Today I have some wonderful amps that I can use. I have a Bogner Shiva, a Komet 60, a Marshall 50W combo, a SF Super Reverb, and a Deluxe Reverb. All great amps in their own right. Mostly I gig with either my Marshall(which has a master volume) or my Deluxe. Great tone, managable volume & at the end of the night my ears aren't bleeding!
The guys that I grew up listening to were Hendrix & Clapton, Page, Beck. You get the idea. ALL of these guys used a wall of Marshall amps, but even back then I knew I didn't need it. I was playing bars, nit stadiums. On very rare occasions I would get the opportunity to play an outside gig and be able to "dust off" the stack. The Fact is in todays musical world PA systems do a lot more then carry a vocalist. Every amp is miked & evry singer is miked. Everything is going through the PA. This gives you a better overall balance and most importantly a good stage volume. I can't imagine how loud it must have been for Hendrix or Led Zepplin on stage. How can you hear anything that the other musicians are doing when the volume is that loud. All I hear is mush when things get too loud. Today I have some wonderful amps that I can use. I have a Bogner Shiva, a Komet 60, a Marshall 50W combo, a SF Super Reverb, and a Deluxe Reverb. All great amps in their own right. Mostly I gig with either my Marshall(which has a master volume) or my Deluxe. Great tone, managable volume & at the end of the night my ears aren't bleeding!
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
+10,000,000,000
Wattage really isn't the issue. It's the loudness of the speakers used, and how they stack up against the PA being used. 4x12 moves a lot of air – too much for many venues' PA systems to keep up with, especially when you add in the other amps on the stage. In other venues, 4x12 is fine.
If you want the best of both worlds, get a combo amp, and various extension cabs to go with it. That way you have a "one trip" combo when you need it, a 2x12 setup when you need it, or a 4x12 setup when you need it. That's "how I roll." A 1x12 combo is my "base" amp. The speakers used depend on the venue. I can either use the internal 12 inch, the internal 12 inch plus my 12 inch extension speaker, the internal 12 inch plus my 2x15 extension, the internal 12 plus one of my 4x12 extensions, any of the above extensions with the internal speaker disconnected, or the internal speaker disconnected and any two 4 ohm cabs.
+10,000,000,000
Wattage really isn't the issue. It's the loudness of the speakers used, and how they stack up against the PA being used. 4x12 moves a lot of air – too much for many venues' PA systems to keep up with, especially when you add in the other amps on the stage. In other venues, 4x12 is fine.
If you want the best of both worlds, get a combo amp, and various extension cabs to go with it. That way you have a "one trip" combo when you need it, a 2x12 setup when you need it, or a 4x12 setup when you need it. That's "how I roll." A 1x12 combo is my "base" amp. The speakers used depend on the venue. I can either use the internal 12 inch, the internal 12 inch plus my 12 inch extension speaker, the internal 12 inch plus my 2x15 extension, the internal 12 plus one of my 4x12 extensions, any of the above extensions with the internal speaker disconnected, or the internal speaker disconnected and any two 4 ohm cabs.
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Lewguitar
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
One of the most uncomfortable concerts I ever attended was my favorite rock guitarist, Jeff Beck, playing at the Phoenix Opera House. Here's a room with superb acoustics, designed for classical music. And Jeff got up there with his band with Jennifer Batten on second guitar, each of them just raging through either Marshall or Carvin stacks, and was so LOUD it almost made me sick to my stomach. I'd seen Jeff a half a dozen times before...even saw the original band with Rod Stewart. But this show was so inappropriately loud and G*d awful sounding that I did something I thought I'd never do: I left early. Just couldn't take it. I felt like I was being assaulted.
One of the most uncomfortable concerts I ever attended was my favorite rock guitarist, Jeff Beck, playing at the Phoenix Opera House. Here's a room with superb acoustics, designed for classical music. And Jeff got up there with his band with Jennifer Batten on second guitar, each of them just raging through either Marshall or Carvin stacks, and was so LOUD it almost made me sick to my stomach. I'd seen Jeff a half a dozen times before...even saw the original band with Rod Stewart. But this show was so inappropriately loud and G*d awful sounding that I did something I thought I'd never do: I left early. Just couldn't take it. I felt like I was being assaulted.
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jumble jumble
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
I'm not gigging now. I really think if/when I get back into it, I'll go with something like an Axe FX or a POD HD.
I'm not gigging now. I really think if/when I get back into it, I'll go with something like an Axe FX or a POD HD.
everdrone
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
ya I feel pretty assaulted when I see certain doom bands where their gimmick is obscene volume
I wish they would turn it down a bit, but the soundman is prolly turning it up. I noticed the venue PA blew a fuse with the band playing with TWO FULL STACKS, not sure if the fuse issue was related however.
My question is: why stop at 100 watts? seems to be an arbitrary number, when 200 watts would only be like 3 decibels more :banana:
ya I feel pretty assaulted when I see certain doom bands where their gimmick is obscene volume
I wish they would turn it down a bit, but the soundman is prolly turning it up. I noticed the venue PA blew a fuse with the band playing with TWO FULL STACKS, not sure if the fuse issue was related however. My question is: why stop at 100 watts? seems to be an arbitrary number, when 200 watts would only be like 3 decibels more :banana:
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps
The Stones didn't stop at 100W. When their V4's "weren't enough," they went to SVTs, then specially made V9's, 350W guitar amps based on the SVT. My dad saw them at the Palladium in '72. That is a 5,000 capacity place when stuffed to the gills. It was designed for ballroom dancing. What did they play? Each Stone had three SVTs. Nine SVTs in a place designed for swing bands. He stood in the front row, squashed against the railing by the crowd. He said there were NO vocals, and his hearing was literally never the same again.
The Stones didn't stop at 100W. When their V4's "weren't enough," they went to SVTs, then specially made V9's, 350W guitar amps based on the SVT. My dad saw them at the Palladium in '72. That is a 5,000 capacity place when stuffed to the gills. It was designed for ballroom dancing. What did they play? Each Stone had three SVTs. Nine SVTs in a place designed for swing bands. He stood in the front row, squashed against the railing by the crowd. He said there were NO vocals, and his hearing was literally never the same again.
