Bogner Shiva question
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Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Bogner Shiva question
H&K Duotone
Marshall 50W Plexi reissue + good OD
ENGL Savage, Fireball, Powerball
Mesa Stiletto
but really, don't say "I want a Shiva" then save a few hundred and buy something else. There's only 4 Shivas. EL-34 or 6L6, with or without reverb. EL-34 reverb is the one to get.
H&K Duotone
Marshall 50W Plexi reissue + good OD
ENGL Savage, Fireball, Powerball
Mesa Stiletto
but really, don't say "I want a Shiva" then save a few hundred and buy something else. There's only 4 Shivas. EL-34 or 6L6, with or without reverb. EL-34 reverb is the one to get.
Re: Bogner Shiva question
Wow - I have been thru this
I think the Shiva is pretty one of a kind if you like a sweet, balanced, classic tone. It's very much plexi meets a bit of hot rod.
Between playing a Plexi and a JCM800, it reminds me more of my Plexi (though many Plexi owners are die hard about thier Plexis). Having been thru your same search, I felt the only amp that gave me a sound that would work in softer settings as well as ORck N Roll was the Rivera Knucklehead, esp Series 2. You can have those for about $700.
Joe knows his stuff, but I would feel the ENGL sound more into the crunch and gain, and it would not have the same sweet cleans. You can literally use the Bogner Shiva for R&B and Jazz. The Mesa Stiletto, hmmm I still need to hear series 2. Series 1 has none of the richness and responsiveness and balance of the Shiva. I would sooner send you to a Mesa Heartbreaker, which I rather liked (has a built in Variac) - they go for as low as $600 - $800.
Once you start looking at NEW ENGL's and MESAS, you might as well look for a USED SHIVA. The non-Reverb go for as low as 1400! It is an amp built to last a lifetime. I am one of those people that actually feels there is a lot of pureness in the Bogner tone SANS reverb. I prefer to use a TC Electronics G-Major thru the loop.
BTW Bogner just revamped the Shiva, so you may want to investigate the NEW, UPDATED model.
Wow - I have been thru this
I think the Shiva is pretty one of a kind if you like a sweet, balanced, classic tone. It's very much plexi meets a bit of hot rod.
Between playing a Plexi and a JCM800, it reminds me more of my Plexi (though many Plexi owners are die hard about thier Plexis). Having been thru your same search, I felt the only amp that gave me a sound that would work in softer settings as well as ORck N Roll was the Rivera Knucklehead, esp Series 2. You can have those for about $700.
Joe knows his stuff, but I would feel the ENGL sound more into the crunch and gain, and it would not have the same sweet cleans. You can literally use the Bogner Shiva for R&B and Jazz. The Mesa Stiletto, hmmm I still need to hear series 2. Series 1 has none of the richness and responsiveness and balance of the Shiva. I would sooner send you to a Mesa Heartbreaker, which I rather liked (has a built in Variac) - they go for as low as $600 - $800.
Once you start looking at NEW ENGL's and MESAS, you might as well look for a USED SHIVA. The non-Reverb go for as low as 1400! It is an amp built to last a lifetime. I am one of those people that actually feels there is a lot of pureness in the Bogner tone SANS reverb. I prefer to use a TC Electronics G-Major thru the loop.
BTW Bogner just revamped the Shiva, so you may want to investigate the NEW, UPDATED model.
chcjunior
New member
Re: Bogner Shiva question
I've got the Knucklehead 55R, and it can do it all (literally). I'm not sure if it's the Series 2 but it does have the three channels on it. I'm still surprised at how much ground it can cover and cover well. Great Fenderesque cleans, hot rodded marshall and over the top cookie monster gain. The seperate reverb for the clean and gain channels is a great feature, along with seperate boost functionality and seperate master volumes for all channels.OlinMusic said:
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Bogner Shiva question
To me it was like Americanized British tone. Many say it's like a JCM800, but having had both I don't agree. The Shiva has great tone, but is a lot smoother, and darker than a Marshall. It's more fluid and reminds me more of something Mesa than something Marshall. I had the EL34 version too. I ran a Jeykle & Hyde pedal in fron of the clean channel and it was killer. The gain channel was nice, but not enough for me. The boost is pretty noisy and compressed.
To me it was like Americanized British tone. Many say it's like a JCM800, but having had both I don't agree. The Shiva has great tone, but is a lot smoother, and darker than a Marshall. It's more fluid and reminds me more of something Mesa than something Marshall. I had the EL34 version too. I ran a Jeykle & Hyde pedal in fron of the clean channel and it was killer. The gain channel was nice, but not enough for me. The boost is pretty noisy and compressed.
That90'sGuy
DyzaBoyzologist
Re: Bogner Shiva question
I'd agree with Joe on the H&K Duotone recommendation. Hughes & Kettner has more glassy cleans than the Shiva (the Shiva has that thick, warm vintage Marshall plexi clean), but as far as medium-high gain goes, they're not completely different beasts. The Duotone gets a decently thick overdrive that has some good compression and chunk like the Shiva. If you wanted the thicker and warmer cleans, you'd have to get a H&K Triamp (the 1b channel gets pretty warm and thick).
I sold my Triamp and I still have my EL-34 Shiva with reverb, so that tells you what path I chose for my tone, but I can't say that the Hughes & Kettner wasn't a good amp and certainly kills most amps value wise if it's purchased used (it does a suprising number of different genres extremely well). One thing to keep in mind is the master volume. H&Ks is better than a lot of amps, but the Shiva has one of the best master volumes ever designed. The whole Bogner thing (as Joe mentioned in one post a while ago) is the sound of a cranked Marshall at all "realistic" volume levels. Reinhold managed to design a system to make the power tubes sound like they're running wide open even without the amp being loud (which is a huge reason why I love it so much).
I use my Shiva different than some folks too. I run mine through a mix of V30s and CL80s and use P90 guitars exclusively (love the Marshally type crunch I get with P90s in the mix). I think most folks use humbuckers with the Shiva and run it through an all V30 combo.
I'd agree with Joe on the H&K Duotone recommendation. Hughes & Kettner has more glassy cleans than the Shiva (the Shiva has that thick, warm vintage Marshall plexi clean), but as far as medium-high gain goes, they're not completely different beasts. The Duotone gets a decently thick overdrive that has some good compression and chunk like the Shiva. If you wanted the thicker and warmer cleans, you'd have to get a H&K Triamp (the 1b channel gets pretty warm and thick).
I sold my Triamp and I still have my EL-34 Shiva with reverb, so that tells you what path I chose for my tone, but I can't say that the Hughes & Kettner wasn't a good amp and certainly kills most amps value wise if it's purchased used (it does a suprising number of different genres extremely well). One thing to keep in mind is the master volume. H&Ks is better than a lot of amps, but the Shiva has one of the best master volumes ever designed. The whole Bogner thing (as Joe mentioned in one post a while ago) is the sound of a cranked Marshall at all "realistic" volume levels. Reinhold managed to design a system to make the power tubes sound like they're running wide open even without the amp being loud (which is a huge reason why I love it so much).
I use my Shiva different than some folks too. I run mine through a mix of V30s and CL80s and use P90 guitars exclusively (love the Marshally type crunch I get with P90s in the mix). I think most folks use humbuckers with the Shiva and run it through an all V30 combo.
Re: Bogner Shiva question
hmmmmmmmmmmm I have NEVER EVER heard a Bogner compared to a Mesa
I have heard them called Darker and smoother - but having owned a few Marshalls and a few Mesas - nowhere on EARTH would I see this!
If you meant that the Bogner is smooth - well it's not in the territory of a Mark series. Also, many have a tendency of running the Bogner without opening up the Master - you wouldn't run a Marshall low and then call it thin and fizzy??? While the Bogner Shiva gets GREAT tones at low volume, it records like a Marshall and gets more Plexi-esque as you crank.
I would spend less time comparing the Shiva to a JCM800 and more to a Plexi. It is smooth like a cranked Plexi. It has more hair on the distortion, but you will never understand the Shiva til you hear it against a band. Trust me, I thought the amp was overrated on the first try. Riveras lack a bit of that smoothness. They are overcompensating their attempts at the "Marshall" sound, and there is a sort of grind that never quite had it for me. They cut more, but I prefer the Shiva and it's "darkness".
The 55R is the 3 ch reverb series, which are somewhat similar to Series 2. I agree the Rivera is like an Amaerican sort of take on Marshall. Mostly, the best thing about Riveras is that they work for ANY music, and I mean ANY! Country to Metal LITERALLY!
EDIT: BTW I just got home from the Cat Club in Sunset where I spent all night with blaring Mrshalls in my ears - Ironic time to write this
hmmmmmmmmmmm I have NEVER EVER heard a Bogner compared to a Mesa
I have heard them called Darker and smoother - but having owned a few Marshalls and a few Mesas - nowhere on EARTH would I see this!
If you meant that the Bogner is smooth - well it's not in the territory of a Mark series. Also, many have a tendency of running the Bogner without opening up the Master - you wouldn't run a Marshall low and then call it thin and fizzy??? While the Bogner Shiva gets GREAT tones at low volume, it records like a Marshall and gets more Plexi-esque as you crank.
I would spend less time comparing the Shiva to a JCM800 and more to a Plexi. It is smooth like a cranked Plexi. It has more hair on the distortion, but you will never understand the Shiva til you hear it against a band. Trust me, I thought the amp was overrated on the first try. Riveras lack a bit of that smoothness. They are overcompensating their attempts at the "Marshall" sound, and there is a sort of grind that never quite had it for me. They cut more, but I prefer the Shiva and it's "darkness".
The 55R is the 3 ch reverb series, which are somewhat similar to Series 2. I agree the Rivera is like an Amaerican sort of take on Marshall. Mostly, the best thing about Riveras is that they work for ANY music, and I mean ANY! Country to Metal LITERALLY!
EDIT: BTW I just got home from the Cat Club in Sunset where I spent all night with blaring Mrshalls in my ears - Ironic time to write this
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Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Bogner Shiva question
I just threw the names of some decent channel switchers that might grab the same attention as a Shiva. My usual answer is 'just forget about all that and buy a Bogner' LOL
By the way Olin, the brand new version of the Shiva is probably going to be a big hit. In a few more years, when Bogner has a bunch of models out there, they'll catch on and become a pretty popular company.
I just threw the names of some decent channel switchers that might grab the same attention as a Shiva. My usual answer is 'just forget about all that and buy a Bogner' LOL
By the way Olin, the brand new version of the Shiva is probably going to be a big hit. In a few more years, when Bogner has a bunch of models out there, they'll catch on and become a pretty popular company.
spacecaptain21
New member
Re: Bogner Shiva question
It seems to me like they already have, among the session guy/professional group. I've seen a good deal of Bogners in the backline of touring guitarists on TV.
A Bogner is my dream amp, (along with a Dr. Z). It sounds like it would be PERFECT for me.
Gearjoneser said:
It seems to me like they already have, among the session guy/professional group. I've seen a good deal of Bogners in the backline of touring guitarists on TV.
A Bogner is my dream amp, (along with a Dr. Z). It sounds like it would be PERFECT for me.
Re: Bogner Shiva question
You know what? I want Bogner to get a little bit bigger than it is now.. but NOT much more.
I love that Bogner has kept themselevs one of the big boys of the underground. They are selective about who sells their stuff, they are not desperate to please Harmony Central people, and they work VERY hard to please PLAYERS, and NOT COLLECTORS!
I have visited Bogner and had a great experience with the people. They keep it simple and amazing. I would hate to see Bogner make an amp like some makers have made, then mass retail it to some big chain, and get a bunch of knuckleheads (no Rivera pun) playing them.
While Marshall is both a great amp AND an image thing, Bogner is that underground thing for people who want unreal tone and power that works in ANY situation. Never have I seen an amp that can compete with Marshalls AND Fenders, while playing everything from Authentic ROCK to Funky R&B caramel goodness, in one dangerous package.
You know what? I want Bogner to get a little bit bigger than it is now.. but NOT much more.
I love that Bogner has kept themselevs one of the big boys of the underground. They are selective about who sells their stuff, they are not desperate to please Harmony Central people, and they work VERY hard to please PLAYERS, and NOT COLLECTORS!
I have visited Bogner and had a great experience with the people. They keep it simple and amazing. I would hate to see Bogner make an amp like some makers have made, then mass retail it to some big chain, and get a bunch of knuckleheads (no Rivera pun) playing them.
While Marshall is both a great amp AND an image thing, Bogner is that underground thing for people who want unreal tone and power that works in ANY situation. Never have I seen an amp that can compete with Marshalls AND Fenders, while playing everything from Authentic ROCK to Funky R&B caramel goodness, in one dangerous package.
Re: Bogner Shiva question
Oh man, Bogner Shiva is so good! I used to use it in rehearsals, but I use a TriAxis now. Bogner Shiva sounds like a cranked up hot-rodded Marshall with nicer clean channel and less grainy overdrive channel. In my opinion, les paul + Bogner Shiva = real hard rock. I don't know what other amp sounds like the Shiva. As others mentioned, it has this dark crunch that cuts through the mix. It's definitely different from other amps.
Oh man, Bogner Shiva is so good! I used to use it in rehearsals, but I use a TriAxis now. Bogner Shiva sounds like a cranked up hot-rodded Marshall with nicer clean channel and less grainy overdrive channel. In my opinion, les paul + Bogner Shiva = real hard rock. I don't know what other amp sounds like the Shiva. As others mentioned, it has this dark crunch that cuts through the mix. It's definitely different from other amps.
coachc55
New member
Re: Bogner Shiva question
One of the reason's I brought this up was that I heard Ralph Perucci of the Alien Cowboys say that he used a Bogner Shiva. And boy, what awesome tone. He plays a PRS Swamp Ash special and sounds awesome. Their latest cd "Zero Gravity" features Paul Reed Smith and Johnny Hiland. But Perucci himself is awesome. They're a great band. Here's their link http://aliencowboys.com/
Thanks,
CoachC
One of the reason's I brought this up was that I heard Ralph Perucci of the Alien Cowboys say that he used a Bogner Shiva. And boy, what awesome tone. He plays a PRS Swamp Ash special and sounds awesome. Their latest cd "Zero Gravity" features Paul Reed Smith and Johnny Hiland. But Perucci himself is awesome. They're a great band. Here's their link http://aliencowboys.com/
Thanks,
CoachC
Bludave
New member
Re: Bogner Shiva question
12 years ago I was searching for one amp that would do what I was doinf with a Marshall and a Fender. For many years and to this day I A/B'b a Marshall 900 50W combo with a 69 Super Reverb. I was looking for one amp that woud do what these 2 amps were doing for me. After playing thru a lot of amps, not everything that wa out there, but I playyed thur a lot of very high end some lesser known amps and a variety of other things I finally came to the realization that it may not be out ther............. until I played thru the Shiiva that I bought. The bottom line is if you really love the tone and versatility of the Shiva, buy a Shiva I don't think you will find anything quite like it. Yes you may find amps out there that are very good for less money, but the Shiva is really something special. There are some very minor complaints I have about it but as I said they are minor. I would like to have a volume control and gain control for the boost. The boost should also work with both channels, mine only works on the drive channel and The effects loop needs some work, but this is minor because I don't use the loop. All of the complaints I have explained here Bogner has answers for as long as you are willing to pay for the mods they can be solved. In my case I don't have any major complaints about the amp. It is one of the best clean sounds I have ever heard. Very different than Fender and very similar to a Plexi. The Drive channel for me and for waht I do is awesome It just flat out eats anything else I have played thru alive. I hardly ever bring the gain about 12 O'clock, so it has a large amount of gain that I will probably never tap into. I am pretty much a Blues/bluesrock kind of player so I just use enough gain to push the tubes beyond what my TS9 can do. I use the TS9 as a volume boost in the clean channel but this adss some really nice tube OD to it also. Great amp in general and I am still learning how to dial it in. I'v only hade it a few months but as I said it is the best I have ever played thru as far as new Amps go! I would recommend one to anybody.
12 years ago I was searching for one amp that would do what I was doinf with a Marshall and a Fender. For many years and to this day I A/B'b a Marshall 900 50W combo with a 69 Super Reverb. I was looking for one amp that woud do what these 2 amps were doing for me. After playing thru a lot of amps, not everything that wa out there, but I playyed thur a lot of very high end some lesser known amps and a variety of other things I finally came to the realization that it may not be out ther............. until I played thru the Shiiva that I bought. The bottom line is if you really love the tone and versatility of the Shiva, buy a Shiva I don't think you will find anything quite like it. Yes you may find amps out there that are very good for less money, but the Shiva is really something special. There are some very minor complaints I have about it but as I said they are minor. I would like to have a volume control and gain control for the boost. The boost should also work with both channels, mine only works on the drive channel and The effects loop needs some work, but this is minor because I don't use the loop. All of the complaints I have explained here Bogner has answers for as long as you are willing to pay for the mods they can be solved. In my case I don't have any major complaints about the amp. It is one of the best clean sounds I have ever heard. Very different than Fender and very similar to a Plexi. The Drive channel for me and for waht I do is awesome It just flat out eats anything else I have played thru alive. I hardly ever bring the gain about 12 O'clock, so it has a large amount of gain that I will probably never tap into. I am pretty much a Blues/bluesrock kind of player so I just use enough gain to push the tubes beyond what my TS9 can do. I use the TS9 as a volume boost in the clean channel but this adss some really nice tube OD to it also. Great amp in general and I am still learning how to dial it in. I'v only hade it a few months but as I said it is the best I have ever played thru as far as new Amps go! I would recommend one to anybody.
