Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
- Thread starter SunIsLoco
- Start date
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
The slugs, but the difference in wind is within standard tolerances of production pickups. Gibson also has Custombuckers which are identical but the stronger wind is on the screw coil and they use A3 magnets.
The slugs, but the difference in wind is within standard tolerances of production pickups. Gibson also has Custombuckers which are identical but the stronger wind is on the screw coil and they use A3 magnets.
Discharged
New member
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
/Peter
Despite how it's been advertised, the couple of dozens or so I've personally inspected didn't show any signs of presenting "coil unevenness".
/Peter
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
Disappointing that that claim is made. Maybe the first ones were, and they let things slide somewhere along the way?
Disappointing that that claim is made. Maybe the first ones were, and they let things slide somewhere along the way?
Discharged
New member
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
In my case, I've set apart and count the turns of wire of about two dozen Burstbuckers (something's critical when you re-wind broken p'ups), and never found a difference that I could consider worth to be called a designed "mismatch". The smallest "coil mismatch" which effect actually is audible, lies about 5% of turn count in neck p'ups and it has to be bigger for bridge p'ups, due to the broader range of harmonic nodes read by the polepieces.
/Peter
The Burstbuckers were actually born in Japan, and it was the first serious attempt to reproduce the specs of actual PAF p'ups, and the infamous "coil-mismatch" was included as part of the marketing verbatim, but as it was frowned upon the technicians setting up the CNC winders telling the suits that would be detrimental for production purposes, they were actually never been wound as such, so the "mismatch" could well been attributed to the wire itself, being bought by brokers, lowballing different makers, so the suppliers of every batch would be different, and so would be the specs.
In my case, I've set apart and count the turns of wire of about two dozen Burstbuckers (something's critical when you re-wind broken p'ups), and never found a difference that I could consider worth to be called a designed "mismatch". The smallest "coil mismatch" which effect actually is audible, lies about 5% of turn count in neck p'ups and it has to be bigger for bridge p'ups, due to the broader range of harmonic nodes read by the polepieces.
/Peter
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
Fun fact, all other things being equal with the coil itself, the slug coil is slightly hotter, because of the slugs.
Fun fact, all other things being equal with the coil itself, the slug coil is slightly hotter, because of the slugs.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
I think that's wrong. The longer screws make it sound hotter. A double screw version of the same pickup will sound hotter than double slugs.
I think that's wrong. The longer screws make it sound hotter. A double screw version of the same pickup will sound hotter than double slugs.
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
Fun fact, longer screws make a pickup weaker than shorter screws. The reason is because the tail portion of the screw that sticks out the bottom of the pickup is opposite polarity from the part of the screw that runs up through the coil to the guitar string, therefore the tail portion of screw increases the magnetic reluctance of the circuit. Snip it off, and the pickup becomes louder.
Fun fact, longer screws make a pickup weaker than shorter screws. The reason is because the tail portion of the screw that sticks out the bottom of the pickup is opposite polarity from the part of the screw that runs up through the coil to the guitar string, therefore the tail portion of screw increases the magnetic reluctance of the circuit. Snip it off, and the pickup becomes louder.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
metlking
Well-known member
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
I love the Burstbucker 3. It has become my "go-to" in the last couple of years. That being said I grab them whenever I see one on the cheap.
I have 4 in the drawer at the moment. I measured them for you (or anyone interested) for reference:
2/22/2011 4.39/4.16
5/09/2011 4.37/4.16
8/08/2014 4.32/4.10
7/07/2016 4.33/4.14
To compare, I have a Fralin "Unbucker" that also currently resides in a drawer, sadly!
Fralin: 4.93/3.94.....much higher offset with an A4 magnet. I haven't tried that one yet..........
I love the Burstbucker 3. It has become my "go-to" in the last couple of years. That being said I grab them whenever I see one on the cheap.
I have 4 in the drawer at the moment. I measured them for you (or anyone interested) for reference:
2/22/2011 4.39/4.16
5/09/2011 4.37/4.16
8/08/2014 4.32/4.10
7/07/2016 4.33/4.14
To compare, I have a Fralin "Unbucker" that also currently resides in a drawer, sadly!
Fralin: 4.93/3.94.....much higher offset with an A4 magnet. I haven't tried that one yet..........
Last edited:
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
The Fralin Unbucker is a phenemonal pickup, I have one in what started out as a Keith Richards tribute Tele. It's one of the best neck pickups I've ever played.
The Fralin Unbucker is a phenemonal pickup, I have one in what started out as a Keith Richards tribute Tele. It's one of the best neck pickups I've ever played.
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
Longer screws might increase the inductance a little, but surely not my much.
Longer screws might increase the inductance a little, but surely not my much.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
Going by the resistance of the hybrid HB's I've made, I've found a 5% difference between coils in a neck hybrid gives a discernible increase in treble & clarity, which is my goal. A 10% difference allows me to use a warm magnet (UOA5 or A2) and still have a boost in treble, a sharper high-end, and less midrange. Those two magnets also add texture to the sound. For me, that beats a neck HB with balanced coils.
Looking at the Kinman site, apparently Gibson's goal with creating HB's in 1955 was to have a P-90 tone without noise, especially clarity & firm, piano like-low-end. P-90's were (and are) the gold standard of guitar tone. They didn't get that with their HB's and shelved the project for 2 years, but resurrected it & introduced them into the market in 1957 due to competitive pressures.
Going by the resistance of the hybrid HB's I've made, I've found a 5% difference between coils in a neck hybrid gives a discernible increase in treble & clarity, which is my goal. A 10% difference allows me to use a warm magnet (UOA5 or A2) and still have a boost in treble, a sharper high-end, and less midrange. Those two magnets also add texture to the sound. For me, that beats a neck HB with balanced coils.
Looking at the Kinman site, apparently Gibson's goal with creating HB's in 1955 was to have a P-90 tone without noise, especially clarity & firm, piano like-low-end. P-90's were (and are) the gold standard of guitar tone. They didn't get that with their HB's and shelved the project for 2 years, but resurrected it & introduced them into the market in 1957 due to competitive pressures.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
As I was saying. Slugs may or may not have any discernable difference in output between them. I've done a lot of hybrids and dual screw vs dual slug had such a small effect on volume that I didn't notice the difference until I started looking for it. Even then, I still couldn't really tell if it was the polepieces or other factors making the difference.
But the main difference between screw and slugs is that screws have a slighty hotter tone to them. Slightly de-emphasized treble and maybe I bit more bass. It has a really minor effect on the lower mids as well, but it's nothing to write home about. What got me in to this was Allen Holdsworth using a dual screw 59n in the bridge of one of his guitars.
If you want to experiment you can use a Screamin' Demon and make it dual hex or dual fillister. The shorter hex screws will be more similar to a slug than than a fillister.
As I was saying. Slugs may or may not have any discernable difference in output between them. I've done a lot of hybrids and dual screw vs dual slug had such a small effect on volume that I didn't notice the difference until I started looking for it. Even then, I still couldn't really tell if it was the polepieces or other factors making the difference.
But the main difference between screw and slugs is that screws have a slighty hotter tone to them. Slightly de-emphasized treble and maybe I bit more bass. It has a really minor effect on the lower mids as well, but it's nothing to write home about. What got me in to this was Allen Holdsworth using a dual screw 59n in the bridge of one of his guitars.
If you want to experiment you can use a Screamin' Demon and make it dual hex or dual fillister. The shorter hex screws will be more similar to a slug than than a fillister.
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
I don't agree with this assessment. If the screw coil does increase the inductance, and as I said, it will be a very small increase, it will increase the series impedance of the entire pickup, not just one coil or the other, so it would make the entire pickup sound hotter, not just the screw coil.
If the screws are allowed to have a long tail stick out the bottom of the pickup, that coil will generate less voltage because the bottom half of the screw that sticks out increases the magnetic reluctance, the same overall effect as if you were to lower the screw coil away from the strings.
I don't agree with this assessment. If the screw coil does increase the inductance, and as I said, it will be a very small increase, it will increase the series impedance of the entire pickup, not just one coil or the other, so it would make the entire pickup sound hotter, not just the screw coil.
If the screws are allowed to have a long tail stick out the bottom of the pickup, that coil will generate less voltage because the bottom half of the screw that sticks out increases the magnetic reluctance, the same overall effect as if you were to lower the screw coil away from the strings.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
That's nice in theory, but have you tried it in practice?
That's nice in theory, but have you tried it in practice?
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
It's not a theory, all those statements are factual. If you don't understand why one statement or another is true, I can explain in more detail.
It's not a theory, all those statements are factual. If you don't understand why one statement or another is true, I can explain in more detail.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Burstbucker Pro uneven coil wind question
Have you considered that slugs and screws aren't made from the same alloy? And that longer screws create less focus from shorter screws? Which is the opposite of what your saying, as lowering a pickup creates more focus.
Have you considered that slugs and screws aren't made from the same alloy? And that longer screws create less focus from shorter screws? Which is the opposite of what your saying, as lowering a pickup creates more focus.
