Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

[dr.barlo]

On my only floyd rose axe, a japanese ibanez s470, I used the CC (with a2s and a3s) for quite sometime. Lately I have been carrying it to the gigs as a backup guitar (my main one is a 95LP standard). Like last week in a gig when my B string broke, I get to use the CC/PG loaded s470.

I could not sequeeze enough highs out of the CC with an a2. I had restored it thinking that at loud volumes the a3 might be a little too bright you know. I was wrong. Guess what I did. I switched back to a3, and tried it in a rehearsal. Again the same problem.

Being accustomed to A5 PAF clones (on LP's) I think my ears like bright tones. So the above might not apply to you. :duh:

I installed my 8.75K PG+ into the bridge of that ibanez, and the problem was solved instantly. It's not focused (that's why I did not go for an a5 in the CC, don't hate me ok :burnout: ), clear, punchy, bright, but not icepicky even with a floyd. God I love that pickup, have tried it (came stock actually) on my lone star strat (that I converted to a S/S/S strat with an ant I custom bridge) and on my 95LP before switching back to my timbuckers (and for the interested parties that PG+ I think is the pickup that comes closest to a timbucker bridge). I loved it on all those guitars.

The crunch it delivers is soo cool. I gotta admit that John's mod on my DS1 helps quite a lot, now that the ds1 can keep bass when active.

Just wanted to share, that's all.

B

 

[Russ]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

..Cool, I'm glad your happy with this pup, bro.:cool2: ...Should I time you, to see how long you stay satisfied with this change?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Hi Doc! I like the CC in my Hamer Monoco but I think about replacing it with something more vintage sounding sometimes. I'd probably put a full set of Antiquitys in it if I did anything. I just keep the CC close to the strings and it's pretty bright that way. I invited some friends over a while back and they brought thier best guitars. I brought out my Les Paul with the Tom Holmes HB's and my Monoco with the Seth Lover and Custom Custom. My buddy brought his '02 or '03 Les Paul Plaintop with a2 Burstbuckers. We also tried my other Hamers with Antiquity neck and Custom 5 bridge and some others. Bottem line: the Monoco with the Seth and CC combo sounded the most impressive to everyone!

By the way Doc: I'm copying you! I'm putting together a new Strat pickguard with a Fralin Blues Special Tele bridge pickup and a pair of Fralin Vintage Hots. Should be ready to install this weekend.

Lew

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Hi Doc! I like the CC in my Hamer Monoco but I think about replacing it with something more vintage sounding sometimes. I'd probably put a full set of Antiquitys in it if I did anything. I just keep the CC close to the strings and it's pretty bright that way. I invited some friends over a while back and they brought thier best guitars. I brought out my Les Paul with the Tom Holmes HB's and my Monoco with the Seth Lover and Custom Custom. My buddy brought his '02 or '03 Les Paul Plaintop with a2 Burstbuckers. We also tried my other Hamers with Antiquity neck and Custom 5 bridge and some others. Bottem line: the Monoco with the Seth and CC combo sounded the most impressive to everyone!

By the way Doc: I'm copying you! I'm putting together a new Strat pickguard with a Fralin Blues Special Tele bridge pickup and a pair of Fralin Vintage Hots. Should be ready to install this weekend.

Lew

Hamers are great guitars! BTW that strat with a tele bridge will be an excellent guitar. I honestly think that demand for them (a strat or tele with a tele lead pickup and 2 strat single coils) would be quite high if a guitar company were to offer it around fender strat prices. Albert Lee Music Man uses the same principle no?

B

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

..Cool, I'm glad your happy with this pup, bro.:cool2: ...Should I time you, to see how long you stay satisfied with this change?

Yeah do time me. :burnout:

It's not my tastes that are changing, but the use of the guitar you know. My "focal point" in terms of the HB's are ~8.40-8.70K a5 in the bridge and ~7.50-8.00K a2 or a3 in the neck, both preferably with unmatched coils. Yet those don't work too well (too bright) with modelling amps to record directly into the computer. Hence the CC see? It did not let me down for so long now, and I am gonna keep it and switch back to a CC in tht guitar the second its primary function becomes recondring with a modelling amp. In fact there it is the best I know of, it does excellent 80's high gain tones, vintage kinda HB tones, and very convincing single coil tones. So I am still defending CC for various grounds, yet with the setup I have PG+ cuts better, breathes more you know.

B

 

[mrid]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

I wonder how that 8.7k PG+ would compare to my 8.7k A5 loaded Antiquity...

 

[jeremy]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

i love the pg wind, i prefer it with an alnico 2 magnet. but i like warmer tones, i think my picking style gives me lots of attack so i like the way the a2 magnets soften the attack

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

I wonder how that 8.7k PG+ would compare to my 8.7k A5 loaded Antiquity...

Excellent question! I think I can answer this, as I have 2 ant hb's with a5's in them. One measures 8.72K and the other 8.67K. In fact while at it lemme include my 8.70K 59b into the comparison as well. Mind you I tried them in the same LP, my 95standard.

Obviously they sound very similar to the PG+, but there are differences. Ant's are closer to the 59b, but they have more harmonics, more 3d hollowness even with the a5. BTW I know you know what I am talking about. I suspect that this is due to the wax potting. Anyway, relatively speaking 59b is more sterile, not rendering the harmonics as good as the ants. But still it is a great pickup, it's just that ants are excellent you know.

PG+ on the other hand has more harmonics then the others, but they're different. It's less 3d, not as deep and hollow as the ants. But (I guess due to them mismatched coils, then again maybe the ants are also like that I dunno; BTW in my pg+ the slug coil is hotter ~.60K) PG+ has more of that RG-BBQ-like upfront screaming tone, but not as dominant as those on BBQ. Of course it breates way more than BBQ does, that is is not compressed like a BBQ or C5. I think that's why I love it.

All said I gotta add that I don't understand why PG+'s don't get the fame they deserve. They are excellent pickups, and as I said in my initial post, I'd say that they are the closest to the timbucker bridge (which go for like $500 a set nowadays).

B

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Albert Lee Music Man uses the same principle no?

B

Not Quite. I have the Albert Lee set in my Strat and it's very cool. Small polepieces with a slight stagger to them (very slight, almost flat). Lots of chime and air to the tone with no icepickiness, even at the bridge, which isn't as hot as a Tele pickup (to my ears). Also, it doesn't have a brass plate, but a steel one underneath just the polepieces, not the whole pickup, like a tele usually does.

All that said, it's currently my fave strat set.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

i love the pg wind, i prefer it with an alnico 2 magnet. but i like warmer tones, i think my picking style gives me lots of attack so i like the way the a2 magnets soften the attack

I hear you man. I love my 8.35K non-modded PG, as it is. It has that throaty growl, whereas the A5 clones have more of a upfront nasal honk to them. I think I love them a5 bridge PAF clones more, but still would not sell/trade that PG of mine. Actually if it were not to have long legs (mine is a early 90's custom shop pickup, no logo and long legs), I'd install that PG instead of my PG+. Think it would do a better job especially because of the floyd. But still PG+ did not end up being excessively bright. I was afraid of that, floyd + a5 PAF rings danger bells in my head.

I think PG's are the best non-custom shop PAF pickups out there.

B

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Not Quite. I have the Albert Lee set in my Strat and it's very cool. Small polepieces with a slight stagger to them (very slight, almost flat). Lots of chime and air to the tone with no icepickiness, even at the bridge, which isn't as hot as a Tele pickup (to my ears). Also, it doesn't have a brass plate, but a steel one underneath just the polepieces, not the whole pickup, like a tele usually does.

All that said, it's currently my fave strat set.

Thanks for the info. I thought they had strat sized tele lead pickups. :smack: :cool3: That makes my strat with the tele lead in the bridge more unique, an oxymoron I know! :laugh2:

B

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Thanks for the info. I thought they had strat sized tele lead pickups. :smack: :cool3: That makes my strat with the tele lead in the bridge more unique, an oxymoron I know! :laugh2:

B

No problem. :burnout:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Have any PG clips with the Floydguitar Barlo??
I have a CC and like it...but maybe I want to swap it over in my Wolfgang instead, the Kramer I have is so fatsounding that I can use a regular PAF instead.
Still wonder how good a Seth would sound though...hehe

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Have any PG clips with the Floydguitar Barlo??
I have a CC and like it...but maybe I want to swap it over in my Wolfgang instead, the Kramer I have is so fatsounding that I can use a regular PAF instead.
Still wonder how good a Seth would sound though...hehe

Not yet brother, don't have any clips with the PG+ in that guitar.

Today a friend of mine came over. He has a Phil Collen 86 Jackson with a 8.30K PG in the bridge. It sounded simply phenomenal through my rig, Spina modded DS1 into Peavey Classic 30. Almost as good as my 95LP standard. :smack: Still my LP sounds thicker although it has more a5 punch. But that PC jackson was great, I was surprised to like such an 80's guitar. And it definitely sounded better than my PG+ Ibanez you know. :blackeye: It's all about the wood anyway, even tho the pickup makes a huge difference.

For your Kramer I'd be kinda afraid to try an A5 PAF bridge, might be too bright. But if you say it is fat enough, well by all means try one. Otherwise, I think going with a PG/hot seth/a2 ant is a safer deal.

B

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Hehe well it was born with a JB at the bridge, but I really want something else...it gets too 80's with that setup, and the CC sounds great on that guitar, so I guess that a PG or a Seth would be very nice.
I am after that old hollow A2 PAF sound, the CC has some of those qualities but it would fit my Wolf better than the Kramer with a rosewoodboard and alderbody.
Hehe yeah I should try an Ant as well.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Tell me more about the Custom 3. I may get around to trying a PG+, but my next thing will be using a new A-3 magnet I picked up from Wasteof02. How will the A-3 tone differ from the A2, A5, and A4. I've heard those, but don't yet know what to expect from the A3. I've heard of more people, yourself and Voodoo, liking the A-3's in the neck position.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Bye Bye CC: Replaced it with a PG+

Tell me more about the Custom 3. I may get around to trying a PG+, but my next thing will be using a new A-3 magnet I picked up from Wasteof02. How will the A-3 tone differ from the A2, A5, and A4. I've heard those, but don't yet know what to expect from the A3. I've heard of more people, yourself and Voodoo, liking the A-3's in the neck position.

A3 is a great very musical magnet. Excellent results with dark PAF clones in the neck and round (edgey) a2 (a5 respectively) pickups in the bridge.

Tonally it is very similar to an a2 but with some of the a5 characteristics. More uppermids, less lower mids, and a more thumb in the bass (less spongy). It is different from the a4 whcih actually sounds quite like the a5 with less thumb in the low side. My ears are telling me that a4's are bright and especially because that they do not have the thumb and bass of the a5's that makes that brightness quite noticable. Not my favorite.

In terms of the magnetic pull it is WEAKER than an a2 (and a4 or a5 obviously) but its magnetic field is more dense. (Thus in theory a3 has more sustain -due to less magnetic pull- and more output -due to the magnetic field being denser- than an a2 but I guess that's impossible to notice.) My sources have been Tim White and Steven Kersting. Actually here is the composition table of and some other information about (that Tim white gave) the alnico magnets. But it is missing info about their magnetic pull (I remember checking that over the various magnet manufacturer's sites, and the magnetic pull of a3 was lower than that of a2).

Here are the formula's. The filler has trace elements, but is mostly iron.

Alnico %AL %NI %CO %CU

1 12 21 5 -
2 10 17 12 6
3 12 25 - 3
4 12 28 5 -
5 8 14 24 3

Also alnico 1-4 are cooled outside of any magnetic fields which allows the magnet material to be magnetized in any direction. Alnico 5 is cooled inside of a magnet field and it's molecules want to keep that orientation when later magnetized (typically, sometimes it can be unoriented).

If you are familiar with a CC, and if you have not done so, check my thread in the clips section:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=35

In the brightest c5-guitar of yours, you gotta try one out! You already have an a3 no?

B