C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

[merkaba22]

So that's the main question -- how would the Custom 8 compare to a Hybrid in Gibson SG (90 Double) w/ an ebony fretboard?

Further, has anybody found the coil split in a Custom 8 to be particularly interesting?

And finally, what single coil pup would would you select to match either a Custom 8 or a Hybrid in the above guitar?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

Which hybrid? The C/59 hybrid or another one? The C8 splits nicely but its not spectacular or anything special. What position are you putting the single coil in?

 

[merkaba22]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

Which hybrid? The C/59 hybrid or another one? The C8 splits nicely but its not spectacular or anything special. What position are you putting the single coil in?

C/59 Hybrid and the single coil is in the neck position on that guitar -- thanks

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

The C8 has much more mid push and low mids than a C/59 does a bit more output and a slightly rolled off high end. Now is this the single in the normal pickup position or is it the weird tilted one like the SG90's had? Do you want a single to match output with the humbucker? Do you want a warmer or a glassier single sound?

 

[merkaba22]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

The C8 has much more mid push and low mids than a C/59 does a bit more output and a slightly rolled off high end. Now is this the single in the normal pickup position or is it the weird tilted one like the SG90's had? Do you want a single to match output with the humbucker? Do you want a warmer or a glassier single sound?

Thank you, SG-90 Double's have the angled single coil -- I would prefer a warmer sound (but would to hear the recommendation on glassy, all the same) ...

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

Yeah my little brother had one of those we played hell finding a single coil that he liked in it. The weird orientation makes it an odd spot to try and dial in. We found the Duncan SSL Five Two worked really nicely sounds good and even in it nice tight bass glassy but not with too much chime. The downside to it was that it was way quieter than the Riogrande BBQ that was in the bridge. The SSL3 hot balanced much better with the humbucker and had less highs and more even mids and bass but seemed to lack personality. It sounded good but didnt have a lot of character (depending on what you want this can be good or bad). The RioGrande Muy grande kinda split the difference it had a nice character and was louder than the Five Two. If your after a balanced warmer sound I think the SSL3 hot would get you there or maybe the SSL 6 if you want a bit brighter sound.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

As has been said, the C/59 hybrid is gonna sound brighter and thinner (less mids) than the C8. The C8 also has more punch to it. IMHO, the C8 is just about as good as it gets in an SG bridge. Great sounding and extremely versatile.

 

[blueman335]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

As has been said, the C/59 hybrid is gonna sound brighter and thinner (less mids) than the C8. The C8 also has more punch to it. IMHO, the C8 is just about as good as it gets in an SG bridge. Great sounding and extremely versatile.

+1. A hybrid in an SG with an ebony board is going to be very bright and thin. C8's a much better choice. Remember with hybrids that because of the unbalanced copils you lose some midrange and add treble, basically combining the sound of a HB and a single coil. In a neck HB that's great, but not always in the bridge slot. To me, bridge hybrids need warm magnets and warm pots.

 

[merkaba22]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

All this has been informative, I appreciate it -- what would I expect to find with an A8 mag in the Hybrid?

And two, how does the maple neck and Floyd stack up with the C8?

 

[dvanburen]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

Remember with hybrids that because of the unbalanced copils you lose some midrange and add treble, basically combining the sound of a HB and a single coil.

Why is that? I believe you but ive never heard that or really noticed it

 

[blueman335]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

All this has been informative, I appreciate it -- what would I expect to find with an A8 mag in the Hybrid?

With hybrids having a sharper high-end, they really need warm magnets. The '59/Custom with an A5 is treble city. An A8 or UOA5 in a '59/Custom is a much better magnet choice, much fuller and warmer.

 

[blueman335]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

Why is that? I believe you but ive never heard that or really noticed it

When coils are matched, they cancel 60 cycle RF hum, which is why humuckers were invented. As a byproduct of that, they also have increased mids and a reduction in treble and clarity; the hotter a HB is wound, the more apparent that is. When coils are unbalanced, they're not getting all of the above characteristics. That means that the coils aren't fully cancelling hum, and there's less reduction of treble, so they have a sharper high-end. The unbalanced part has single coil characteristics, the balanced part is humbucker. It's a great sound for a neck HB, you actually get a sharp, biting sound from the neck slot.

I like to make neck hybrids by combining coils from a bridge and neck PAF (or similar low output, like a Jazz). A 4.2K and a 3.8 coil (about 10% difference) really opens up the high-end. Even though the total resistence is 8K, it's noticeably brighter than a stock 7.6K neck PAF. I'll pair up neck and bridge coils from the same model (ie. '59B and '59N), different models (SethB and JazzN), or even different brands ('59B and a Gibson 50SR). The key is getting a 5 to 10+% difference in resistence between the coils; the bigger the difference, the brighter it is. And because you have that sharp treble on top, you can use a warm magnet with a lot of texture and dynamics (A2 or UOA5). I don't know why this isn't much more common with stock neck HB's. This prevents overly-warm, muffled, muddy neck HB's.

You can also get unbalanced coils using spin-a-split, which is a very simple mod that requires no additional parts. I much prefer it over coil cut or parallel, as both are much weaker and thinner, not as useful. In spin-a-split, you still keep some of the HB muscle behind the sound, and add a sharp edge.

My EQ efforts involve warming bridges and brightening necks.

 

[AlexR]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

I have a c/59 hybrid with an A5 in the bridge slot of my SG. It is neither over-bright nor sharp. Lets face it, the C/59 will have more thickness than a regular 59 in the bridge....or any typical PAF.

Edit - I've just remembered its actually a C/jazz....so maybe thats why its better

 

[blueman335]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

the C/59 will have more thickness than a regular 59 in the bridge....or any typical PAF.

That's not saying a lot, as '59B's are one of the brighest PAF's there is. C5's are well-known here as bright and thin, as are '59's. If your hybrid works for you in your guitar, that's great, but it would still be too much treble for me if it has an A5.

 

[dvanburen]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

thanks blueman, good info. Ive yet to try an uoa5 mag yet. Ive got a C8 im dumping in a les paul. the neck pup is a 59/jazz. dont like the a5 in that one its too boomy and sterile for me. A4 is really nice sounding but a little flat all across. Im contemplating putting an a2 or a3 but not sure how its going to pair with the a8 in the bridge. Would you recommend popping a uoa5 in the neck? I like warm bright neck pickups with lots of character. I really like the hybrid neck pickup its just a matter of fine tuning the eq in it.

 

[blueman335]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

Ive got a C8 im dumping in a les paul. the neck pup is a 59/jazz. dont like the a5 in that one its too boomy and sterile for me. A4 is really nice sounding but a little flat all across. Im contemplating putting an a2 or a3 but not sure how its going to pair with the a8 in the bridge. Would you recommend popping a uoa5 in the neck? I like warm bright neck pickups with lots of character. I really like the hybrid neck pickup its just a matter of fine tuning the eq in it.

C8's are good in LP's (and SG's, 335's, etc). I like the high-end of A5's in the neck slot, but often times there's just as much low-end ('for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction'). That's what's eventually led me to unbalanced coils, either thru hybrids or spin-a-split. I can get even more high-end than an A5 and not have to pay the price with boominess.

A2's are the warmest alnico; A3's are fairly bright, but with a softer, less cutting high-end than an A5. A3's also have a good dose of mids (as do A2's) which give a PU a bigger sound, especially in the neck slot. I'll use A3's in place of A5's in neck HB's when there's too much bass, and I want to preserve as much treble as possible. Because A4's have a flatter EQ, I think they tend to work best if a PU's is wound to have more character.

For A2's and UOA5's (the two warmest alnicos) to work in the neck for me, the coils have to be underwound so the PU doesn't sound muffled. Because hybrids have a certain amount of single coil sound from the unbalanced coils, I can use wamer magnets at higher resistences, and still keep the cut and bite. For me, that's turning out to be the ideal neck HB: unbalanced coils + warm magnet. I can preserve that PU's flavor ('59B + '59N) or mix things up with other models and brands of coils. If I want to keep a neck HB stock, I'll use spin-a-split.

 

[dvanburen]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

makes sense. So im going to ask your for your expertise.. Are 59's and jazz considered underwoud or overwound? I only ask becuause I dont have experience with as many neck pickups as you. From your post you seem to suggest toward the A3 for that 59/jazz neck pup. A4 was better than the a5 for sure but the flat response got old after a while. It sounded really good! but didnt have the character i am looking for. I dont want a neck pup to do anything but match up with the bridge pup volume wise and somewhat eq wise. I want it sound sweet, warm, big (without boominess) and clear. A2 is a really good sounding mag but doesnt have that umph or push that im looking for. A5 seems to be boomy as hell and not near as sweet and warm. A4 is close but overall flat in all frequencies, so it seems to get old quick. I guess I'm leaning toward A3 or uoa5. which one in your opinion would match up with that sweet ass C8?

or are you saying that with a hybrid such as the 59/jazz A5 you would get less boominess than with say a stock 59 A5?

 

[blueman335]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

makes sense. So im going to ask your for your expertise.. Are 59's and jazz considered underwoud or overwound? I only ask becuause I dont have experience with as many neck pickups as you. From your post you seem to suggest toward the A3 for that 59/jazz neck pup. A4 was better than the a5 for sure but the flat response got old after a while. It sounded really good! but didnt have the character i am looking for. I dont want a neck pup to do anything but match up with the bridge pup volume wise and somewhat eq wise. I want it sound sweet, warm, big (without boominess) and clear. A2 is a really good sounding mag but doesnt have that umph or push that im looking for. A5 seems to be boomy as hell and not near as sweet and warm. A4 is close but overall flat in all frequencies, so it seems to get old quick. I guess I'm leaning toward A3 or uoa5. which one in your opinion would match up with that sweet ass C8?

or are you saying that with a hybrid such as the 59/jazz A5 you would get less boominess than with say a stock 59 A5?

Most neck PU's are underwound; anything 8K or less I consider underwound. For your '59/Jazz, an A3 will be brighter than an A4 and have more mids and character. But it's low output like an A2. UOA5's have a lot of texture and character, and are warmer than an A3 or A4, but not as warm as an A2. Output is close to an A4's. With bright coils (like a hybrid) I'd try an UOA5 first for the richer sound. You may like that better paired with the C8.

When you swap one coil of a '59N, you dial down the mids and low-end, so a hybrid will be brighter and less bassy (with an A5) than a stock '59N. Most of my hybrids have involved a '59B or N, and bassiness hasn't been an issue.

From reading the links of yours (thanks!) most of you guys are working with hot bridge coils in your hybrids. I'm just the opposite, focusing on medium output and PAF coils, with a focus on the neck slot. At this point, that's where I see the most benefits of unbalanced coils. I particularly want neck HB's that have chord clarity and a sharp high-end to solo with.

 

[dvanburen]

Re: C8 v Hybrid in SG w/ ebony board

From reading the links of yours (thanks!) most of you guys are working with hot bridge coils in your hybrids. I'm just the opposite, focusing on medium output and PAF coils, with a focus on the neck slot. At this point, that's where I see the most benefits of unbalanced coils. I particularly want neck HB's that have a sharp high-end chord clarity and to solo with.

Im just personally into hotter bridge humbuckers for my style of play, but the concept and goal is all the same. I personally have enjoyed playing all the bridge hybrids ive made and wish i had more guitars to put them in but in the end of the day the custom 8 sounds just great for me. But the 59/jazz is just great and was a big difference in tone from either stock variation for me which is why i find your efforts with the neck humbuckers interesting. The A4 mag sounded great clean but on distortion is almost sounded muffled because there was no push or pull really in either direction eq wise. I know there is some love here for the A4/A8 combo, and i can see the appeal, but didnt match up eq wise enough for me. I'm gonna try the uoa5 and see what that does. I may explore the a5 again in the neck paired with the C8. maybe even the A3