Cabinet woods discussion

[MikeS]

What are the advantages of different woods in speaker enclosures and guitar cabinets?

My assumption has always been that MDF is used at times (more so in subwoofer enclosures) for its strength and flat response. The stuff is sonically dead to my ears, which would, IMO, be a great thing if you wanted clear and honost sound reproduction from your speaker enclosure.

My next assumption is that a high-end plywood, such as stain grade birch plywood, offers a more colored sound. To my ears, it generally has a stronger treble presence and tends to attenuate the lower mids.

The whole thing gets me thinking, though... how critical is the wood in a speaker enclosure (cabinet). We can spend hours debating the makeup of woods in a guitar, but very rarely does cabinet wood come up. How big of a deal do you think it is? How much do the vibrating walls of the enclosure impact the sound created by the cone of the loudspeaker? Let's assume you've got two cabinets of identical design, one of MDF and one of Birch plywood (or other wood of your choice). What are the tonal differences?

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

i started to make some homemade speaker 2x12 cabs.... i used MDF and got them glued up and stopped..... too heavy... i had a good look at some of teh better quality plywood i could find but most birch plywood around is for building houses and furnature. Birch good oneside is the best i can find.... A 3/4 in some older Marshall cabs has like 16 mini plys.... the plywood i can here find only was 8 plys.... i'm not sure if that makes a difference at all

Some say making cabs out of real lumber is a good thing..... Pine-(quality stuff no knots) mahogany, cherry wood, maple, and so on.... Stain and spray painted

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

Had a Sovtek Pine cab once, loaded it with 4 greenbacks....sadly I had to sell it back to finance my move back to the mainland
It sounded very sweet and warm, it was quite thick and very light to carry around, I want one like that again some day!

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

This is a good question . . .


. . . i was shocked (almost horrified) when i found out that Fender & Mesa use "solid Pine" in their cabs, and they "rant n' rave" about the fact that they use Pine - WTF ???

Maybe it is just me, but over here in South Africa, Pine, is a "poor man's wood" ! - PERIOD
When it comes to furniture and almost anything else !!!
(Budget furniture = Solid Pine)
So why would those two TOP Brands use a COMMON wood, and sell the cabs for sooo much ???

It is not as if they use a near extinct (only 100 tree's left in the world) exotic wood from the Amazon or Alsaka !
Pine is 'durt cheap' over here. So why 'bragg' about such a common wood and hike the prices as if it is made from Yellow Wood, or Stink Wood, or Emboya, or Jacaranda or even Mahogany ?


Can any one shed some light on this matter, please !

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

OT :

. . . hey "Rid" . . . I LOVE your city mate !!!

Been there last year !!!
Fantastic, and the girls/woman - how do you do it ?

Living with not a single fat ugly woman in the entier country ?

Will try and post some pic's that i took in Aarhus, a bit later !

 

[V!N]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

This is a good question . . .


. . . i was shocked (almost horrified) when i found out that Fender & Mesa use "solid Pine" in their cabs, and they "rant n' rave" about the fact that they use Pine - WTF ???

Maybe it is just me, but over here in South Africa, Pine, is a "poor man's wood" ! - PERIOD
When it comes to furniture and almost anything else !!!
(Budget furniture = Solid Pine)
So why would those two TOP Brands use a COMMON wood, and sell the cabs for sooo much ???

It is not as if they use a near extinct (only 100 tree's left in the world) exotic wood from the Amazon or Alsaka !
Pine is 'durt cheap' over here. So why 'bragg' about such a common wood and hike the prices as if it is made from Yellow Wood, or Stink Wood, or Emboya, or Jacaranda or even Mahogany ?


Can any one shed some light on this matter, please !

Flamed and quilted maple is considered completely useless by furniture and floormakers here, so it ends up being wood for in the fire .. Now, would you say all those nice Les Pauls are partially made with waste that should have gone into the fire ?
You need to get a right perspective on things, woods are used for what they need to be used for. Sonic response, weight and durability are more important for a guitarcab, rather than how expensive the wood under the tolex is.

For those who want to know more about the sound of various materials, there's some very good reading on the Les Paul Forum on this:
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81043

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

I was told they use(d) pine. Oh well, better than particle board I guess

 

[casblah]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

Well lets face it, Pine is cheap, and readily available.... good for production purposes...I made an amp using American Sycamore, and the tone was fat, and middy...actually found this out, by process of economics...I'd imagine that wood thickness plays a huge role in the resonance of the cab, thinner thickness-es, will resonate more freely than, thicker pieces...obviously. So, there's a lot to consider...but, an interesting topic, for sure.

 

[greco]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

So when price, availability, weight, sonic quality, etc. are taken into account...which wood ranks the highest, and what thickness is recommended?

I'm asking about the choice(s) of woods in North America mainly, but maybe we are missing out on woods used elsewhere that are highly recommended also and meet the above criteria.

As Casblah said, this is an "interesting topic, for sure" and a good one to get some comments about.

Dave

 

[MesaDCLP]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

Physics play a large part in the answer ...

Lighter material takes less energy, thus giving more resonance and a flavored response. Denser material would be opposite and a less colored sound.

Birch is choice wood because of price and quality and inevitably the thickness determines the flavor, the question is, how thick should it be ...

… and air space is critical too. The bigger the boomier.

Oh yeah, high dollar furniture is made of Oak or Cherry. What maker cuts it into cabs and guitars? This is not firewood and someone should try this.

I'd rather play through gear that could be from a tree in my front yard, than some exotic martian plant that will not grow where I was born.

 

[Curly]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

Can any one shed some light on this matter, please !

Leo used pine on tweed cabs. It was inexpensive, which made it good for production costs. More importantly, it was lightweight, resonant, and sounded very good.

he also used pine on tele prototypes. It sounded good but it was too soft and dinged easily. Still, there are folks making tele bodies out of pine today.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

^Pine sounds good!!
So what if it is plentyful and common??
Yeah Curly, one of my guitarbuilding friends made one out of pine.....sprrrrooooiiiinngg it went
He used wood that had dried for a very long time, it was a very very lively guitar.
Same with my cabinet, it got tolexed and had some nice corners and such, the guy I sold it to still has it, he uses it with an old Park 45.
Sounds absolutly great!
Another friend I have used pine for his HIFI speakers, Focal speakers....great sound!

 

[baritone]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

I have heard that a lot of audiophile-grade home stereo speakers are made from MDF because it does not resonate. For the most part, the woods of a speaker enclosure are not supposed to resonate with the music as a guitar is supposed to. It is the durability, pliability, and ability to resist vibration that are the significant qualities of enclosure materials.

 

[Baltar]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

all above regarding MDF is correct:
it's heavy and good damping. that's why you find it often in hifi and
for sub systems. i used it for a 112 basscab - sounds great, very neutral
and precise, but too heavy.
i used it for a 112 guitar cab and wasn't happy - dead sound somehow
if it should be really cheap, rather use a high quality press board

currently i build a spruce cab. it's not ready yet, but sounds very bright
and clear to me.

sb told me once, that marshall uses birch for their cabs

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

Thanx to all who tried to give some answers !

I am still just in the dark about the high prices that guys like Mesa Boogie ask for their extention cabs. (?)

If pine is soo cheap (popular/commonly avalable), and they probably get their speakers at a whole-sale price, due to the amount they buy, why such high prices ?

"Tolex and wire'ing" can not be THAT expensive ?
Can it ?

 

[Baltar]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

you pay for the name!
it's the same for gibson

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

Baltic Birch is the standard.

Inexpensive, plentiful, resonant, good weight, easy to work with etc etc etc

There's a fella named Bob Burt that makes custom cabs & he uses 100 year old pine.

http://www.bobburtcabinets.com/about.html

I understand that his cabs are FANTASTIC !

BUT....once you cover the cab in tolex, those tonal properties all change. The same cab naked will sound very different from a tolexed cab.

SO...if you're gonna stain a cab, don't use MDF.

AND seal up that pine

 

[Baltar]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

"Tolex and wire'ing" can not be THAT expensive ?
Can it ?

i just checked it, because i was interested.
if i'd tolex my little 112 and put corners and stuff on, it would be
somewhere in the 100$ range. depends on where you get the
materials from.

 

[baritone]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

With Mesa/Boogie cabs, you are basically paying for the name, as you would be when buying an extension cab to match a boutique amp. There may be differences in the levle of craftsmanship, but my Avatar rocks, and it wasn't too expensive.

 

[V!N]

Re: Cabinet woods discussion

Check out Sultone if you really want a nice bit of furniture made from fine looking woods. Flamed maple Fender Twin Reverb any one ? As if a Twin isn't heavy enough already ..
I "kinda" like what he does, but when you gig and tour, there's no way that it's practical.