Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

[Diminished Triad]

Is it possible to have complete guitar and bass sounds coming from a stage with just pre-amp (amp modeling) boxes and no speaker cabinets or combo amps on stage? It would cut down drastically on loading and unloading time and effort if all guitar players and the bassist could plug into their own little boxes rather than full size amps with cabs or combos. They would then run their connections directly through the stage box and then to the mixing board straight through to the PA mains.

Who are the leaders in the amp modeling industry these days?
Thanks!

 

[johnthomas]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

I just listened to a Fractal Ax8 at a small club for like 3 hours about a week ago...pretty impressive. I would place it at the top of my list. You could also look at Line6 Helix or Avid 11 Rack. They both have features to like, though it appears that 11 rack is approximately 5 year old tech and needs an outboard midi controller to be 100 % useable live. Also, consider using Tech 21 Flyrig 5 or Ritchie Kotzen pedal...These are both great sounding if you like the less hi-gain sound as your mainstay...also great as a backup rig. I believe Mincer uses the Fractal Ax8 as his main and Flyrig5 as a backup. I have the Flyrig5 and it is good for me through my Fender Blues Jr. ( which already sounds a lot like the preamp section) or through a powered mixer...been thinking about a Tech 21 Power Engine as a small amp for use with an Avid 11 Rack and having my Flyrig become a backup. Interested in hearing others chime in regarding 11 rack vs fractal vs Helix.

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[SlyFoxx]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

Unless you're using in ear monitors you'll still need stage wedges. Fine to monitor guitar but most wedges would be woefully inadequate for bass guitar. But if the mains were solid enough in the lower octaves the omnidirectional nature of those frequencies might provide the bassist enough to hear himself on a small to medium stage with the aid of a standard wedge to cover the higher frequencies.

Now this is all good in theory but also remember with no stage amps the whole of the load of the show now falls on the mains which will have to be particularly stout.

 

[johnthomas]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

Unless you're using in ear monitors you'll still need stage wedges. Fine to monitor guitar but most wedges would be woefully inadequate for bass guitar. But if the mains were solid enough in the lower octaves the omnidirectional nature of those frequencies might provide the bassist enough to hear himself on a small to medium stage with the aid of a standard wedge to cover the higher frequencies.

Now this is all good in theory but also remember with no stage amps the whole of the load of the show now falls on the mains which will have to be particularly stout.

Good advice about in ear monitors.
I didn't really cover Bass, but Tech 21 does make Bass combo pedals that would work. I tend to think that it is useful to have transparent e.g. p.a. style powered speakers onstage to help with the look and feel of a performance. Have mixed feelings about solely using in ear monitors though many use them despite whatever else is on the stage. SlyFoxx has a good point regarding dedicated bass cabs...I would think about using a very full range p.a. with excellent subs if running the bass from a modeler or a dedicated 1000 watt or more speaker. Nowadays even 1000 watts cabs can be fairly light.
The Ax8 and 11 Rack both have bass modeling also...I assume there is some similar capability from Line6 Helix.

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[Aceman]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

Yes it is possible.

10 years ago amp modeling hit the point of being Stage adequate as far audiences go, tonally speaking.

 

[HiFiRebel]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

It's becoming more common. However...you need to have a good PA to work with. As others have said, things can get weird. Quickly.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

I ran a SansAmp PSA-1 straight into the mixer live for 5-6 years back in the day. Just needed a good monitor.

I've also run my pedal board into a DI and then straight to the mixer live when the amp was having serious electrical issues. I usually have an amp simulation type pedal as the first in my chain, however. (e.g. Carl Martin PlexiTone, or RambleFX Marvel Drive, Wampler ThirtySomething or Marshall Govnor)

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

I've had to do it w/my Rocktron(DI'ed) when my Power Amp went down,no real issues...

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

I ran my GSP Legend into a mixer live years ago. All I needed was a small monitor for the drummer to hear me and we were good to go. I could hear myself well enough through the singer's wedge, and of course I knew the song and what tones I needed when.

I'd step out front at the start to check the sound and get a reference for myself to "hone in" on and listen for once the cabinet wasn't in my face, and I was all set.

Hearing your guitar all the time isn't as important as knowing where you are in the song, and knowing what you're playing. If you know the words, you don't have to count beats until your solo or special look at me riff between verses.
Beethoven was deaf when he wrote his 9th Symphony because he knew what the notes should and would sound like.

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

Tech 21 has a whole series made for just this purpose including some for bass.
JOYO makes clones of many of the Tech 21 pedals at a mere fraction of the costs.
A good PA is a necessity AND the ability to provide a unique monitor mix for each band member is a real bonus.

Just put up a cardboard facade of your amps and most of the audience won't notice the difference.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

Yes it's possible and becoming more popular, especially among younger bands that have embraced the technology in favor of lower travel costs and more consistent live sounds.

That being said, as others have pointed out, there is still usually a desire/ need to hear oneself live. In those cases I'd recommend in ear monitors. Bands like Periphery do use on stage cabs for people who want to get a true "moshing" experience at a show, but even those guys use in ears because they are playing to a click live and their patch changes are being handled by a Pro-tools rig. The other advantage of in ears is that every member of the band can do a mix for themselves and get exactly how much of each other they want to hear.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

It's very possible. I used to do it for all non-local shows 4 years ago and it sounded just fine. RP1000 in in stereo straight to the board and sent to my monitors.

 

[Lampy H]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

I saw my guitar teacher gig one time where all he played through was a POD. I had no idea until he told me. He also couldn't hear a single thing he did.

A nice tube preamp and a Two Notes would make a great cabless rig, I think.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

I use a Fractal AX8 direct to the PA. I monitor with in-ear monitors. It is probably the best sound I ever had, and my ears don't ring for 3 days after. Unless I have to (very small room, or a show with amps provided) I won't be carrying an amp anymore to any gigs.

 

[devastone]

Re: Cabless/Comboless Stage with Amp Modeling?

I've done it quite a bit, the quality of the sound depends on the quality of the preamp/cab sim you are using, it can work great, as has been mentioned the Fractal AX8 is supposed to be awesome, but I haven't had the opportunity to play with one.

I used an AMT SS-11 tube preamp and pedals using the cab sim output of the preamp and had great results. It also makes it easier on the sound guy to mix.

And as also mentioned, you do need some kind of monitoring to hear yourself, but I can't imagine doing a gig without wedge monitors at least.