Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

[malix]

I recently put a EMG 81/85 set in my jackson rhoads. I love the 85 in the neck, but the 81 isnt as great as i was hoping it would be.

So i was thinking about trying out a Blackout in the bridge position since i keep hearing so many good things about them. But will that cause any issues to mix the two?

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

There would be no issue with mixing the two that I know of. We have wondered if there would be a phasing issue in the middle position using both pups, but no has tried it yet or have heard anything definitive from Duncan.

They use the same pot values and can run both 9 and 18 volts, etc.

 

[mirrormind]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

You can avoid the 18v/9v problem easily, you wire the two batteries in series and connect the negative to the - terminal on one battery. Then you take a wire off from the first battery to the 9v and the wire from the second battery to the 18v.

I thought it might be easier to explain with a diagram:

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

I was asked to write and add a lot of material for the Seymour Duncan FAQs page a couple of years ago. One of the questions was this very one. The answer I got from SDs head engineer was that EMGs and SDs were of different polarity or phase and that it wasn't possible to mix them.

That may or not be the case with the Blackouts but don't assume that you can. I would take this question directly to the folks at SD.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

I was asked to write and add a lot of material for the Seymour Duncan FAQs page a couple of years ago. One of the questions was this very one. The answer I got from SDs head engineer was that EMGs and SDs were of different polarity or phase and that it wasn't possible to mix them.

That may or not be the case with the Blackouts but don't assume that you can. I would take this question directly to the folks at SD.

Sorry, but that's actually incorrect.

I've mixed the two in the same axe succesfully on multiple occasions - it does work.

I've had 81/59, 81/Jazz, JB/81 85/JB and 707/DiMarzio combos that worked out great.

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

EMGs are supposed to be negative on pull away, meaning if you hook up a voltmeter and pull a steel object off of the poles, the needle will kick backwards. As far as I know, all other actives are positive on pull away. It's somewhat easy to test if you've got a voltmeter, though.

 

[pinto79]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

it's always possible to mix brands. In the case of Actives, since they can't be phase reversed like a 4 conductor, don't be too upset if a section that combines them produces a less than desireable effect.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

I was asked to write and add a lot of material for the Seymour Duncan FAQs page a couple of years ago. One of the questions was this very one. The answer I got from SDs head engineer was that EMGs and SDs were of different polarity or phase and that it wasn't possible to mix them.

They are different impedances. It's not an EMG vs. Duncan issue, its and active vs. passive issue because passives are high impedance and actives are low impedance.

That said, one of my favorite combos is an EMG 85 bridge and a passive PAF style neck. I've run them on several guitars that way, and Washburn even had a production korina flying V with an 85/59 combo stock. It's no big deal. Make sure you use their own correct pots in separate harnesses that only see each other at the toggle and input jack (500k for passive and 25k for EMG). The biggest complaint one might expect is a potential volume drop between the neck and bridge and some circuit popping noise switching. I have not noticed either.

From what I've read (I don't have blackouts so I don't know), is the wiring is the same and the blackouts can be dropped right into your EMG loaded guitar using the existing EMG quick-connect clip. Why blackouts are defaulted at 18v and EMG's at 9v, both can run either way. So dropping a blackout into an EMG setup would run it at 9v giving it a little less headroom.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

Sorry, but that's actually incorrect.

I've mixed the two in the same axe succesfully on multiple occasions - it does work.

I've had 81/59, 81/Jazz, JB/81 85/JB and 707/DiMarzio combos that worked out great.

They are different impedances. It's not an EMG vs. Duncan issue, its and active vs. passive issue because passives are high impedance and actives are low impedance.

That said, one of my favorite combos is an EMG 85 bridge and a passive PAF style neck. I've run them on several guitars that way, and Washburn even had a production korina flying V with an 85/59 combo stock. It's no big deal. Make sure you use their own correct pots in separate harnesses that only see each other at the toggle and input jack (500k for passive and 25k for EMG). The biggest complaint one might expect is a potential volume drop between the neck and bridge and some circuit popping noise switching. I have not noticed either.

Guys, Robert was talking specifically about the Actives (In fact nobody was talking about passives at all until these posts), and there even the SD FAQ states the same. Having tried it before: They´re not lying, either.

BTW: Just because some people are happy with half-baked pots that only work with a smooth taper on one pickup does not qualify as "Working correctly".... The taper on teh EMGs is horrible with 250k pots, even worse with 500k and unsufferable with 1Meg

From what I've read (I don't have blackouts so I don't know), is the wiring is the same and the blackouts can be dropped right into your EMG loaded guitar using the existing EMG quick-connect clip. Why blackouts are defaulted at 18v and EMG's at 9v, both can run either way. So dropping a blackout into an EMG setup would run it at 9v giving it a little less headroom.

Blackouts are also run at 9v by default, the Livewires (which have the phasing issue with 100% certainity) run at 18V

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

I guess I should have been clearer in my post. EMG and active SD pickups are supposedly incompatable according to SDs head engineer. It was a post about Blackouts and EMGs and I assumed that the reader would follow the thinking. Shame on me.

I have never tried to mix the 2 makers active products. I can only go on what I was told by the guy with the degree. I have also heard from a user that this was the case but since the poster that made the claim stated that he never used both pickups at the same time that it wasn't an issue for him.

Carvin and other makers mix passive and active pickups in their basses all the time but I've never gutted one of these guitars to see what pots or other creative measures they use to balance the impedance issues when both types are used.

Of course you can do anything to your guitars that you like. I don't normally make suggestions like mixing passive and active pickups because there is usually a tonal cost involved. I also never make suggestions unless I have tried them first and know that they will work to the posters satisfaction.

Telling someone to spend the money on a Blackout and that it will work perfectly with an EMG without mentioning the possibility that there could be issues according to the guy that is in charge of designing the Seymour Duncan stuff wouldn't be cool on my part. That was my only point.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Can you mix Blackouts & EMGs?

BTW: Just because some people are happy with half-baked pots that only work with a smooth taper on one pickup does not qualify as "Working correctly".... The taper on teh EMGs is horrible with 250k pots, even worse with 500k and unsufferable with 1Meg

Since this followed a quote of what I said, and I was discussing my mixing of passives and actives, I have to assume your taking a jab at me. So please re-read it a bit closer. As I said, I use the correct pots for the correct pickups, 25k for the active and 500k for the passive. It's like having two pickup setups in the same guitar. So while I don't have the engineering degree, I do use them and they work - even mixed.

If you were talking about something else, disregard this.