Can't Record Loud Enough

[LunaticFringe]

I'm having problems getting the stuff I record to be as loud as other music. I use guitar--->PODXT--->Sonar 6 software. Even after turning the volume on the sonar up to max, it still winds up noticeably quieter than the regular songs I listen to. Do I need a preamp? I was looking at this: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/ART-Tube-MP-Studio-Mic-Preamp?sku=180581. Whaddya think?

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

Mastering software.

Basically you need to compress the output so that your signal stays closer to 100% a majority of the time.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

Yess
The tricks are
recording with the maximum level short before clipping
overdubbing the channels
Compression

 

[LunaticFringe]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

Hmm, I'm kind of confused here. So you are saying that Sonar isn't capable of making them that loud, it records at a level just before clipping (what is clipping? my sound card?), and then I turn it up as far past clipping as I need to and compress as much as it takes to reduce the distortion? I figure Sonar 6 must have that covered somehow. I got the XL package and it came with a bunch of stuff. Ill check it out.

 

[millsart]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

Well I'd like to say a nice "long story short" type post but theres really a ton of topics that need to be touched upon from your hardware, to getting a good signal to tape aka hard drive these days, to mix down and mastering. Its an overall process, not just a one simple fix type of deal.

Theres a wealth of information on the net about recording and tons of great books etc these days as well.

They really are what you'll need, ideally one for your dedicated software, that will really show you the ins/outs of how it works and how to get professional sounding results through eq, compression, how to mix tracks to all "sit" in the mix etc

Its certainly not rocket science buts its not something you just plug in and hit record with either.

 

[LunaticFringe]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

Well I'd like to say a nice "long story short" type post but theres really a ton of topics that need to be touched upon from your hardware, to getting a good signal to tape aka hard drive these days, to mix down and mastering. Its an overall process, not just a one simple fix type of deal.

Theres a wealth of information on the net about recording and tons of great books etc these days as well.

They really are what you'll need, ideally one for your dedicated software, that will really show you the ins/outs of how it works and how to get professional sounding results through eq, compression, how to mix tracks to all "sit" in the mix etc

Its certainly not rocket science buts its not something you just plug in and hit record with either.

Yeah, I've been meaning to delve into Sonar for awhile, just have other things that occupy my study time right now. Focusing on just this one aspect though, how can I fix the lack of volume? I've got everything turned up.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

To achieve the kind of volume that's on a commercial release you'll need a brickwall digital limiter. Compression alone won't pump it up enough. Typically it's something that's applied during the mastering process and has nothing to do with recording on the front end, or even mixing really.

Though, I gotta ask... why would you want to your recordings to be as loud as some of the commercial stuff? A lot of new releases are distorted and unlistenable because of extreme limiting.

Use the volume knob on your stereo and turn THAT up!

A google search of "Loudness War" will bring up a wealth of information...

Wikipedia ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

 

[LunaticFringe]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

Oh yeah, I hate that loudness war stuff. I cringe everytime I listen to the last couple RHCP albums. That's not the kind of loudness I'm going for. I put a bunch of my recordings on my IPOD to think about them on the move and I also have alot of classic rock on there. When I put it on shuffle I really noticed that I had to keep turning it down when a real song came on. Are you saying that with the guitar-->POD-->Sonar I should be able to record at acceptable levels? I find that even moving the fader up to +6 (the max) is not enough. Hmm...

 

[DazH]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

use a good mixer to get the volume up near but not beyond the clipping point. Failing or after that I just use audacity to amplify to the maximum level before clipping - works a charm, audacity sets the max point for you.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

Oh yeah, I hate that loudness war stuff. I cringe everytime I listen to the last couple RHCP albums. That's not the kind of loudness I'm going for. I put a bunch of my recordings on my IPOD to think about them on the move and I also have alot of classic rock on there. When I put it on shuffle I really noticed that I had to keep turning it down when a real song came on. Are you saying that with the guitar-->POD-->Sonar I should be able to record at acceptable levels? I find that even moving the fader up to +6 (the max) is not enough. Hmm...

I dunno man. Tough to say without hearing anything or knowing exactly what's going on. Recording audio isn't rocket science, but it IS an alchemy...

A single guitar alone won't ever be as loud as full band... it could be, but generally won't be. A lot of 'perceived' loudness is also about frequency response rather then pure level.

Can you post an MP3 or wav file to download? Or get a screen shot of the waveforms?

 

[LunaticFringe]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

I dunno man. Tough to say without hearing anything or knowing exactly what's going on. Recording audio isn't rocket science, but it IS an alchemy...

A single guitar alone won't ever be as loud as full band... it could be, but generally won't be. A lot of 'perceived' loudness is also about frequency response rather then pure level.

Can you post an MP3 or wav file to download? Or get a screen shot of the waveforms?

I'll get the recording stuff out and put one up tomorrow if I can't figure it out by then. I see what you mean about it not being a full band. Im going to compare to some songs where just one guitar is playing. Out of curiosity, how do you define 'frequency response'? How the highs and lows from different instruments blend together?

 

[J Moose]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

how do you define 'frequency response'? How the highs and lows from different instruments blend together?

Exactly. The balance of highs, mids & lows across the spectrum.

You could have a lot of low end that'll make the waveform "loud" but it won't be perceived as loud because upper mids cut through and the ear is more sensitive to those frequency's.

Really man, if you're just cutting demos & writing songs I wouldn't worry much about the loudness.

 

[NoOnesFang13]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

i know u can do this in cubase, i have problems with vol sometimes when i record stuff so i right click then go to process and normalize.

not sure if sonar does that though...

 

[LunaticFringe]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

Really man, if you're just cutting demos & writing songs I wouldn't worry much about the loudness.

True that. :thanks:

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

i know u can do this in cubase, i have problems with vol sometimes when i record stuff so i right click then go to process and normalize.

not sure if sonar does that though...

Not recommended if you're going to make a good recording, only normalize if you must. The reason is that it brings all the noise and the noise floor up as well.

Just some simple mastering after you're done will help, you don't even need to get fancy if they're demos.

 

[ex-250]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

somethings not right here. i use a PODxt, and i always record with the master volume ("output") slightly under 1. is the channel volume on your patch cranked? if it is, you should have no problems.


check your soundcard settings. click on the little speaker icon in the toolbar (if you have windows, that is), "recording," and make sure the microphone volume isnt turned way down.

 

[karpathion]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

? compressor compressor compressor. clip at the start of the red and turn your stereo up
not your gain. it's probably not right but it works for me.

 

[LunaticFringe]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

somethings not right here. i use a PODxt, and i always record with the master volume ("output") slightly under 1. is the channel volume on your patch cranked? if it is, you should have no problems.


check your soundcard settings. click on the little speaker icon in the toolbar (if you have windows, that is), "recording," and make sure the microphone volume isnt turned way down.

you know what the wierd thing is, the channel volume creates more gain and gives me too much od. Maybe I need to back off the drive control totally and up the channel volume instead. As I remember, the output control does it too.
I have to the college and write a math test soon but I have the rest of the day off. I'll pull the gear out and do some serious tinkering and reply back with the results. Thanks guys, your insight is appreciated and really helpful.

 

[CGord]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

I use a different setup (guit > GuitarPort > RiffWorks) but I have the same type of issue; I have to keep my recording software level down or everything clips.

What I do is raise the level of the completed .wav file with Winamp, my mp3 player. I change the Winamp output from direct output to diskwriter, which creates a copy of the original file. I run the EQ flat, but raise the preamp level to bring the overall level up. Then I convert the copied, higher level .wav to an .mp3 & I'm ready for uploading.

 

[RW James]

Re: Can't Record Loud Enough

I have Sonar Home Studio 6 XL - with the XL package you get Boost 11. This product boosts the volume while compressing the peaks. It isn't the same as professional mastering - but I'm very happy with the results.

What I do is create a Master bus and route everything to that. Then I add Boost 11 to the Master and set it for final mix. It really works well.

Make sure all your other tracks and buses have the levels set to minimize clipping.

You might also check out the Cakewalk forum - a lot of good help there.