Capacitors???

[jalguitarman]

I know that different capacitors impart different qualities to the overall tone of an electric guitar but, to what degree? Can a different type of capacitor like say NOS Black Beauties replacing Orange Drop's make as dramatic of a difference as changing pickups?

 

[Jacew]

Re: Capacitors???

I don't believe there's any effect at all when they're used like in tone circuits. Just placebo effect.

When they're used in signal line... maybe. But as long they're decent quality, they're perfect.

Paying extra for NOS, vintage, PIO etc... is waste of money.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Capacitors???

Some say they make a difference, some say they don’t. I’m inclined to agree with Jacew, as blocking caps in amps I think they do make a difference.

I’d focus on the value of your pots, caps, and any treble bleeds, modern vs vintage wiring on LP style guitars, and nut, bridge, frets and setup first. If you’ve got that all in place and tweaked to your perfection, then experiment with the cap type. Be sure to measure the value of the replacement caps as the tolerance for the vintage style will stray, and that WILL
make a difference.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: Capacitors???

Some say they make a difference, some say they don’t. I’m inclined to agree with Jacew, as blocking caps in amps I think they do make a difference.

I’d focus on the value of your pots, caps, and any treble bleeds, modern vs vintage wiring on LP style guitars, and nut, bridge, frets and setup first. If you’ve got that all in place and tweaked to your perfection, then experiment with the cap type. Be sure to measure the value of the replacement caps as the tolerance for the vintage style will stray, and that WILL
make a difference.

Well here is the scoop. I just got my Epiphone ES Les Paul back from the tech a few days ago. I had him completely gut it and replace everything with high quality parts and vintage style metal braided wiring with Orange drop caps. 500 k pots and a set of Bare Knuckle Stormy Monday pickups. The value on the caps is .0022 for bridge and .0015 for the neck, and 50's wiring. The tone is a bit brighter than I expected. The Bridge pickup is almost twangy. Almost sounds kind of Gretsch like. I was hoping maybe a set of NOS Black Beauties might add just a little warmth to the overall tone. That's why I was checking. I had him put a Tone Ninja nut on it more so to keep the strings from hanging up in the nut, and the way he set it up was quite excellent. Thank you.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Capacitors???

Put in a 250K volume pot. That will tame the shrill high end. That’s how I have my LP.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Capacitors???

I know that different capacitors impart different qualities to the overall tone of an electric guitar but, to what degree? Can a different type of capacitor like say NOS Black Beauties replacing Orange Drop's make as dramatic of a difference as changing pickups?

No.

They’ll make a very subtle difference that most cannot hear or sense.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Capacitors???

More expensive ones might have a better tolerance- in tother words, be closer to the stated value. But if 2 types are measured, and very close in value, I certainly couldn't hear the difference. But lots of money is spent trying to prove otherwise.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Capacitors???

Well here is the scoop. I just got my Epiphone ES Les Paul back from the tech a few days ago. I had him completely gut it and replace everything with high quality parts and vintage style metal braided wiring with Orange drop caps. 500 k pots and a set of Bare Knuckle Stormy Monday pickups. The value on the caps is .0022 for bridge and .0015 for the neck, and 50's wiring. The tone is a bit brighter than I expected. The Bridge pickup is almost twangy. Almost sounds kind of Gretsch like. I was hoping maybe a set of NOS Black Beauties might add just a little warmth to the overall tone. That's why I was checking. I had him put a Tone Ninja nut on it more so to keep the strings from hanging up in the nut, and the way he set it up was quite excellent. Thank you.

Different types of caps do not make a difference; except cheap ceramic disc type that leak and do not dischage consistently, so they do not operate at a consistent value. But other than that, whether it's paper in oil or film doesn't matter as long as the values are correct. Different cap values will make a difference, but only when the tone is < 10.

You introduced several things that would make the guitar brighter: 500k pots, smaller cap values and most notably 50's wiring. One quick fix might be to switch to modern wiring by moving the tone connections from the middle volume lug over to the same lug the pickups are attached to. You could also just roll the tone down a bit. But cap types are the least of your worries.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Capacitors???

No, and go watch the cap videos in the learning curve hred to understand why.

No current passes thru the cap in a guitar, so no DC, no leakage

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: Capacitors???

Different types of caps do not make a difference; except cheap ceramic disc type that leak and do not dischage consistently, so they do not operate at a consistent value. But other than that, whether it's paper in oil or film doesn't matter as long as the values are correct. Different cap values will make a difference, but only when the tone is < 10.

You introduced several things that would make the guitar brighter: 500k pots, smaller cap values and most notably 50's wiring. One quick fix might be to switch to modern wiring by moving the tone connections from the middle volume lug over to the same lug the pickups are attached to. You could also just roll the tone down a bit. But cap types are the least of your worries.

Ok, I will try the modern wiring. would it maybe be better to go with a .0047 cap in the Bridge and move the .0022 to the neck position?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Capacitors???

No, and go watch the cap videos in the learning curve hred to understand why.

No current passes thru the cap in a guitar, so no DC, no leakage

Hmm, then what actually goes to ground through the cap when the tone is rolled off?

If you measure cheap ceramics, they never settle at a consistent value and they sound muddy/unclear in the circuit when the tone is rolled off.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Capacitors???

Ok, I will try the modern wiring. would it maybe be better to go with a .0047 cap in the Bridge and move the .0022 to the neck position?

Do you have your decimal places correct? 0.0022 uF is 2.2 nF - only a little bit of high end would be shunted via the tone control.

As for material, a different dialectic in a capacitor with the same electric field will only require a change in the geometry of the plates to achieve the same capacitance. In other words - the material will determine the size of the capacitor more than anything else. The actual capacitance and it’s impedance, which are affected by the tolerances, are what will affect the sound more than anything. Take two capacitors of the same tolerance and the exact same experimental (not the theoretical value) value, and you won’t hear a difference. That’s excluding conditions like high temperatures etc. You can experience that with amplifiers but not electric guitars (unless you set it on fire).

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Capacitors???

If the values are actually .0022 and .0015, that may just explain it. :13:

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Capacitors???

http://zerocapcable.com/wordpress/?page_id=224 <----- Read the article.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Capacitors???

You know, just cuz you can’t hear a diff in some video with a ham fisted guitarist demonstrating them, that doesn’t mean you might not notice a difference when you try different type caps in your own guitar.

It might feel different. Or you might intuit some difference but find it too subtle to say for sure what your sensing.

I’m kind of in that camp.

I find the diff to be so subtle that I’m not sure if I’m hearing/feeling/intuiting a diff or not.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Capacitors???

Hmm, then what actually goes to ground through the cap when the tone is rolled off?

If you measure cheap ceramics, they never settle at a consistent value and they sound muddy/unclear in the circuit when the tone is rolled off.

It’s an AC circuit - so (alternating) current does flow through the capacitor (you can use Ohm’s law and Kirchhoff’s laws for AC circuits to figure that out, but it’s annoying as it involves imaginary numbers and phase diagrams as well as knowing the experimental output voltage of a pickup which varies via the testing method). He’s correct about no DC flowing through. When capacitors become charged they block DC, but are very briefly a short when the circuit is initially closed (like, when time is expressed as a limit approaching zero).

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Capacitors???

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: Capacitors???

Do you have your decimal places correct? 0.0022 uF is 2.2 nF - only a little bit of high end would be shunted via the tone control.

As for material, a different dialectic in a capacitor with the same electric field will only require a change in the geometry of the plates to achieve the same capacitance. In other words - the material will determine the size of the capacitor more than anything else. The actual capacitance and it’s impedance, which are affected by the tolerances, are what will affect the sound more than anything. Take two capacitors of the same tolerance and the exact same experimental (not the theoretical value) value, and you won’t hear a difference. That’s excluding conditions like high temperatures etc. You can experience that with amplifiers but not electric guitars (unless you set it on fire).

No my decimal points are off. It would be .022 and .015 for my orange drops. Meaning that an Orange drop and Black beauty with the same value will sound the same, if I am reading your post correctly.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Capacitors???

No my decimal points are off. It would be .022 and .015 for my orange drops. Meaning that an Orange drop and Black beauty with the same value will sound the same, if I am reading your post correctly.

That’s where the tolerances come into play, if they are the exact same value (which they are not the exact value printed on the component) then they will sound as close to the same as you should be able to perceive. If the actual values are different, they will sound different.

Is this with all controls at 10 or with volume/tone rolled off? If at full, try the pot value change. If with volume rolled off, try the modern wiring. If with tone rolled off, try a different value orange drop capacitor.

I feel that choosing your pot and cap values is one of the more personal things to choose on a guitar. Think about all the variance you can achieve on a LP... each of the pots could be from 250K to 1M, 50’s or modern wiring, a ton of different cap values, no load pots, Audio or linear taper, treble bleeds... two guitars with the exact same pickups can sound and behave completely differently.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Capacitors???

Well here is the scoop. I just got my Epiphone ES Les Paul back from the tech a few days ago. I had him completely gut it and replace everything with high quality parts and vintage style metal braided wiring with Orange drop caps. 500 k pots and a set of Bare Knuckle Stormy Monday pickups. The value on the caps is .0022 for bridge and .0015 for the neck, and 50's wiring. The tone is a bit brighter than I expected. The Bridge pickup is almost twangy. Almost sounds kind of Gretsch like. I was hoping maybe a set of NOS Black Beauties might add just a little warmth to the overall tone. That's why I was checking. I had him put a Tone Ninja nut on it more so to keep the strings from hanging up in the nut, and the way he set it up was quite excellent. Thank you.

For a little bit of warmth, try .033 and .022 caps.

If doesn't help try higher values, or lower value tone pot (they do slightly different effect). 250k volume seems too radical, and will probably mud up your tone.