Choosing (or modifying) a humbucker for pop rhythm

Ace Flibble

New member
The problem: picked up an ultra-light basswood HH Tele because it feels and looks great (and my spine needs an occasional break from my Gibsons and PRS), but the tone from the stock SD '59 and JB wasn't where I want it to be. I've tried a few replacements already and have the neck pickup sorted (now a A2P but with an A3, so a... A3P?), but nothing is turning out remotely right in the bridge. I'm used to 50mm-spaced 24.75" set neck mahogany guitars, so 25.5" maple bolted on to basswood with 54mm spacing is a much clearer sound, with each string standing out individually, than I'm used to or want; the guitar's far too comfortable to give up on, though.
Control pots are 300k with a 0.033 tone cap already and I don't want to change them given the neck pickup sounds right with the controls as they are, and I doubt dropping to 250k would make enough difference to the bridge anyway.

My other guitars sound fine so it's not a matter of adjusting the rest of my set-up. It's just this one bridge pickup that's not fitting in.

The sound I'm trying to arrive at is a fairly standard pop-rock rhythm. Not hard rock, not classic rock, just the Top 40 middle ground. I categorically do not play lead at all. I don't want any 'cut', I don't want anything that causes the guitar to "stand out in the mix" (which appears to be how every single humbucker in the world is described...) and I don't want 'articulation'. I want chords that smoothly blend each string together into one thump, and just a slight emphasis on low-end, with decent—but not overpowering—bass and lower-mids. Upper-mids are my enemy, but so is a totally hollow mid-scooped sound. Output needs to be right in the middle of the common range, more than 'vintage' but nowhere near metal territory; playing through a JCM900 reissue, a little more power than vintage is needed to get the amp to its distortion sweet spot but 'modern' output can quickly be a problem for the clean channel. To illustrate the 'backline' tone I go for, my amp EQ is 0 presence, 5 treble, 7 mids, and bass on 6 or 7 depending on the room size/volume. (Well, you know, back when live music was still A Thing.) Cab is a 2x12 with Celestion Neo Creambacks.
Pickups that work for this great in other guitars include an SD Pearly Gates Plus, all three of the Custom line (backed very far from the strings), DiMarzio PAF Pro, and a Gibson BurstBucker #3; they're all in very different guitars, though, all inherently smoother, thicker and warmer than this one.

TL;DR: Low-mids and smoothness are the priorities, with dead-middle output.

So far I've tried:
JB - came already installed in the guitar by the previous owner, I assume it was a stock JB. Way too much power even lowered down, far too cutting with nowhere near enough lower-end, pretty much the exact opposite of what I'm after.
Invader - knew it'd be too strong, but I had it laying around spare so gave it a shot. Close in tonal balance but even lowered as far from the strings as it could go, the output was too much, especially the 6th string.
Custom 5 - another I just had spare, so worth a try. Still too hot (pickups can't be lowered as far in this guitar compared to my Gibsons) and also too scooped and hollow-sounding, though the deepest bass and highest treble were about right.
Pearly Gates - Pretty close but, predictably, a bit too cutting and not quite enough overall power. I can't think of a magnet swap that could up the power without adding even more cut, though.

Going on my experience with other pickups in the past, I'm thinking of switching the Custom 5 to an A3 (Custom 3?) and backing it as far from the strings as possible, or hacking together the Custom and '59 coils with an A2 or A3. (To date I've always preferred A3s to A2s in any pickup, but I recognise in this guitar I might need to deviate from my normal ideas.)
However, it's always nicer to be able to just install something stock rather than breaking pickups apart, so I thought I'd throw it open to the board and see if anyone comes up with anything I might have overlooked.

I'm trying to stick to SDs because I can get them much cheaper and quicker than DiMarzios, Gibsons, or any boutique pickup, but I'm open to other brands if it'll get me what I want with less fuss.
 
I'd go with an Alnico II Pro in the bridge. Also, help me to understand the fact that you don't want mids, but have the mids on your amp at 7.
 
You could try a Screamin Demon or a Rio Grande BBQ.

+1 on the BBQ, i was thinking that as well...it is all low mids, vintage hot/medium output, thick and not articulate. on paper it's exactly what you are describing, but i guess i dont know what top 40 pop guitar is in 2020. I have it in 2 guitars and to me it nails Angus' tone on the early 90s live AC/DC record.
 
Never looked into the WLH before, frankly I forgot is exists. Good shout. The description on the SD site certainly sounds about right, so I'll look up some recordings of that one for sure.
The A2P I'm confident won't be right, given the Pearly Gates is hotter and that didn't have enough power; the A2P will only be weaker.
Screamin' Demon is another I always forget exists, though checking the site it sounds like pretty much the exact opposite of what I'm after so... well, I'll look up some recordings, but the WLH definitely sounds like the more likely option of those.
Not sure if I can get Rio Grandes here but I'll ad it to the shortlist, a quick google does make it sound like it could be the ticket.

Also, help me to understand the fact that you don't want mids, but have the mids on your amp at 7.
Several reasons:
1) Having strong mids, bass, or treble going into the amp is a different sound and feel than having the related control turned up, and same for weak mids going in vs turning a control down. This is especially noticeable with amps that have their tone controls after or mixed around in the middle of the preamp, which is the case with the JCM900. (As well as the TSL, JVM2, and some Mesas.)
2) The JCM900's tone controls work over slightly different ranges than a more common Plexi, JCM800 or 2000. (Again similar to the TSL and JVM2.) The mid and presence controls affect frequency ranges a fair bit lower than the same controls on other Marshalls, so you can keep the mid control up without it getting piercing and the presence can be rolled back without all treble disappearing. Partly it's the values they chose for the controls and partly it's the hybrid nature of the amp. On top of that the tapers on the 900's controls are a bit more severe than normal, making each frequency range drop off very quickly. You never want to scoop a 900, even for a gained-out modern metal tone, as all the resonance goes away very quickly and you just end up sounding like you're playing through a broken radio. I love the tone of the 900, TSL and JVM2, but you do have to think more about how you're dialling them in. I guess I like these three for the same reason most people don't like them: they're all great for very carefully sculpting a highly-controlled rhythm tone but they're not plug-and-play and they're garbage for lead. Probably why they're popular with drop-tuned 7-string goth metal and death metal bands. In any case, mids up on a 900 rounds out the sound as opposed to mids up on a 800 which causes you to cut through.
3) Just like with the amp, I want strong(ish) low-mids, not high-mids from a pickup. "Mids" does cover the widest range of frequencies a guitar produces, after all, and there's a big difference from one end of the mids to the other. Low-mids is that sound when someone hits a big chord and you feel the blow in your gut; high-mids is when someone kicks on a tubescreamer and melts your face off with a sweep picking bonanza.
 
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if the pg was close then the wlh might just do the trick for you. its a great pup in the right guitar
 
I think your idea of either a Custom or 59/Custom with A3 is on the right track and you should try it.
 
Wouldn't usually bump any thread like this, let alone my own since for my purposes this problem has been solved, but just thought it might be of interest to people that I've ended up with a Custom/59 (though I made it 'backwards', with the Custom coil nearer the bridge) with an A3.
I tried it with both an A2 and A3 (we already all know what an A5 Custom/59 sounds like, and I know it wouldn't be right for this purpose) and the A3, as I have found with most pickups, sounds the more neutral and fits this pop-rhythm purpose. The A2 was nothing but mids, something I'll attribute both to the magnet and the basswood body. It'd be a good combination for a late-70s/early-80s style of shredding, but mids-heavy tapping and sweeping ain't the goal here. The A3 seems to 'counter' the basswood perfectly, resulting in a mostly flat balance with just the slightest low emphasis. The guitar now sounds kind of like an SG; neither particularly bright nor particularly dark, and warm but not fat.

The A2 Hybrid would be really nice to balance alder or ash and I do like the usual A5 Hybrid in korina and mahogany, but the A3's got basswood nailed.

I've also ordered a set of WLH just for the sake of finally giving them a shot after hearing so many people rave about them, but I'll be trying those in my usual test LP.
 
I see 2 problems. 1) You want thick low mids and no cut from the bridge position of a tele. That is a contradiction of terms. 2) I don't know what "pop-Rock" rhythm is. The damn little bit of guitar I here in top 40 most decidedly does have cut.

It sounds like the Gibson's and PRS are working for you yes? Then I would suggest a Custom Custom. It has all kinds of thick mids. If its too hot wire it in parallel.
 
Wouldn't usually bump any thread like this, let alone my own since for my purposes this problem has been solved, but just thought it might be of interest to people that I've ended up with a Custom/59 (though I made it 'backwards', with the Custom coil nearer the bridge) with an A3.
I tried it with both an A2 and A3 (we already all know what an A5 Custom/59 sounds like, and I know it wouldn't be right for this purpose) and the A3, as I have found with most pickups, sounds the more neutral and fits this pop-rhythm purpose. The A2 was nothing but mids, something I'll attribute both to the magnet and the basswood body. It'd be a good combination for a late-70s/early-80s style of shredding, but mids-heavy tapping and sweeping ain't the goal here. The A3 seems to 'counter' the basswood perfectly, resulting in a mostly flat balance with just the slightest low emphasis. The guitar now sounds kind of like an SG; neither particularly bright nor particularly dark, and warm but not fat.

The A2 Hybrid would be really nice to balance alder or ash and I do like the usual A5 Hybrid in korina and mahogany, but the A3's got basswood nailed.

I've also ordered a set of WLH just for the sake of finally giving them a shot after hearing so many people rave about them, but I'll be trying those in my usual test LP.

Good to know that the Hybrid worked. My other 'solution' was the WLH set. It works well for all kinds of pop rhythms at many gain ranges, clean or with effects.
 
So you ended up with these?
Custom/59 Hybrid w/A3
A2P w/A3
Yup. I don't think this set would work for a Gibson or for an alder/ash guitar, but if anyone has a basswood bolt-on and wants to know how to get that smooth A2 tone without the basswood's mids totally taking over, the answer appears to be an A3. Compared to the same pickups with A2s (as each one was tried first), the A3 makes the wound strings sound just a hair tighter (countering the basswood's mushy bass) while the plain strings are a fraction calmer (Steve Vai might like the 'presence' of basswood, but A3 has successfully removed it for me). The output in the 'A3P' doesn't seem any different to an A2P, but in the Hybrid I definitely notice a volume drop compared to the same coils with an A2; with the A2 it's still on the hot side of medium, but the A3 brought it down to around '59/Pearly Gates Plus output.
 
Yup. I don't think this set would work for a Gibson or for an alder/ash guitar, but if anyone has a basswood bolt-on and wants to know how to get that smooth A2 tone without the basswood's mids totally taking over, the answer appears to be an A3. Compared to the same pickups with A2s (as each one was tried first), the A3 makes the wound strings sound just a hair tighter (countering the basswood's mushy bass) while the plain strings are a fraction calmer (Steve Vai might like the 'presence' of basswood, but A3 has successfully removed it for me). The output in the 'A3P' doesn't seem any different to an A2P, but in the Hybrid I definitely notice a volume drop compared to the same coils with an A2; with the A2 it's still on the hot side of medium, but the A3 brought it down to around '59/Pearly Gates Plus output.

Good info. I want to try something new in my Ibby Jetking, (bolt-on basswood), and was also thinking of making it a dedicated "rhythm" guitar. This could be worth trying out.

P.S. The aesthetics of this guitar really call for covered pups. Would that change your opinion at all?

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It makes the mag swaps a little bit more of a task, but as long as the covers aren't brass the final sound shouldn't be different in any noticeable way.
 
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