Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

[ToneFiddler]

Hi

been a quite reader now and then for years since this forum often pops up in my google searches.

I own and owned some of the fullsized Duncans.
I am more experienced with Gibson style humbucker guitars than any bolt on types but i know how different a PU could be from guitar to guitar no matter if Les Paul vs Les Paul or SG vs LP.
I am pretty unexperient when it comes to small sized humbuckers and Humbuckers in guitars other than LPs and SGs.

right now i have a light adler tele with a std Fender neck PU and a Dimarzio chopper T Bridge in it. The Bridge slot is reverse slant. 250k Vol pot no tone for the bridge.

Seymour duncan has only the Hot rails and the lil 59 as a small size Tele humbucker bridge and i think the hot rails is not my cup of tee.
The vintage/cool rails, screamin deamon etc. are only available for pickguard (neck/strat) mount.

The chopper was an easy buy because of the price and since the dimarzio range of telebridge humbuckers seems to be bigger than SD's i wanted to try something else.

i don't want to have a tradional tele sound with this guitar so the chopper is not too far off from what i was going for.
This guitar should excel in the distorion department.
Also it doesn't have to Sound like a Lester.
Output could be less, so it matches better with the neck pickup altough that is secondary.
What bothers me most is the midrange, while it's nice for fast/shredder leads, it's too honky/nasal compressed for rhythm work.
it sounds too polite, round, boring, smooth on the wound strings (the reverse slant doesn't help). if i turn down the gain i hate it even more since it doesn't start to crunch but only sounds lame although this is partly to blame on the amp.

I want more of a raw sound, grit, crunch, attack with this guitar.
Maybe the lil 59 will fit the bill?
How does the output compare to the Chopper? I'am afraid it's higher in Output.
Is it as scoop as it's bigger Brother?
Does it work better with 250k or 500k pot?

I also consider the Fast track since the Chopper is a beafed up Version with more mids of this one altough the decription sounds to much in the single coil department or i fear it may also have that "processed/polished" midrange of the chopper?

hope you can help

 

[Bowtomecha]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

The Chopper doesn’t exactly retain a traditional tele bridge sound. It is pretty sweet though, especially with distortion. Relatively full and warm. I think the little 59 is a clearer pickup although I’ve only used it in a Strat style guitar. If you like Richie Kotzen’s sound then you’ll like the Chopper Tele. I think you should use 500k pots with it though.

 

[Bowtomecha]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

Never mind I see that you already are using the chopper lol. The little 59 sounds brighter and clearer it’s probably more what you need. Although I don’t know how it is with the tele bridge itself I can guess that it is a shade brighter than usual.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

Little 59 fit the bill for a multi-genre covering Praise and worship band.

If I had one that matched my Area 67/Injectors in black I would have one in the bridge of my strat now. If you have a very strong picking hand .. its a really good mid gain pickup for Progressive metal.

well i think i can pick from super soft to very strong, no problem but Progressive metal is not what i'm going for. for heavier stuff i got other guitars. i want more of an edgy rough crunch than the chopper delivers. if i use more gain, the amp always will sweeten things up.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

The Chopper doesn’t exactly retain a traditional tele bridge sound.
It is pretty sweet though, especially with distortion. Relatively full and warm.

It's the same to my ears. thanks for the confirmation

I think the little 59 is a clearer pickup although I’ve only used it in a Strat style guitar.

that's what i am hoping for.

If you like Richie Kotzen’s sound then you’ll like the Chopper Tele.

his bridge studio sound i don't care to much but this live sound is very nice which also helped to go with the chopper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKBcEV75WE
but I think what dig most is the Speaker amp combo which adds a very raw roar to the sound which i like.
But now that i know that pickup I think i can hear some of the pickups compression and smoothness in that recording on the rhythm parts which is a wee too much for my liking.
That compression is more apparent with my guitar and lower volume levels. . ALso i think my amp has a smoother darker sound like that Marshall SLP which doesn't help.
I think it doesn't bother me as much if i hear that sound from someone else.
But it's somethings that disturbs me while playing.

I think you should use 500k pots with it though.

i can try but a 250k without tone should be the same as 2x500k pots (vol + tone)

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

Never mind I see that you already are using the chopper lol. The little 59 sounds brighter and clearer it’s probably more what you need. Although I don’t know how it is with the tele bridge itself I can guess that it is a shade brighter than usual.

sound promising, thanks.
I think brighter is no problem, maybe i could finally use my tone control:18:

Maybe someone with knowledge on the fast track will come across this thread.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

I used both Chopper and Fast Track 1 in the bridge of the Strat, not in Tele. I found the Fast track 1 has a very balanced tone with less mid emphasis in the Strat application. Depending how you set the height you can still get some mids out of it, and it still has a hint of Dimarzio grind to the mids. From what you wrote the Fast track 1 is probably a step in the right direction. I have not tried the little 59 bridge pickup, but I have a feeling its going to be brighter than the Fast track 1.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

I used both Chopper and Fast Track 1 in the bridge of the Strat, not in Tele. I found the Fast track 1 has a very balanced tone with less mid emphasis in the Strat application. Depending how you set the height you can still get some mids out of it, and it still has a hint of Dimarzio grind to the mids. From what you wrote the Fast track 1 is probably a step in the right direction. I have not tried the little 59 bridge pickup, but I have a feeling its going to be brighter than the Fast track 1.

thanks! yes that Sound more like what i am looking for.

Meanwhile i found a used lil 59, which is not so often/common around here.
when it arrives and i get the chance to install it, i'll report back.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

So I installed the lil 59 and i came to the same conclusions as the consensus in this thread:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...l59-in-a-full-size-humbucker&highlight=lil+59

it's much more middy, smooth and round than i hoped for. not like the normal SH-1 59 at all which is scooped and rather shrill than smooth (which i would haver preferred)
If I raise the coil screws on one coil only i can get a lil more edge but the result is still not what i hoped for.

if a fast track comes along i may try that one also, but i think one of the main reason i don't like any of them is the reverse slant. the wound strings especially A and E are just anemic, just not enough balls.
The light Wood doesn't help but i love this guitar for the Neck PU and it's a quite a lively Instrument and unplugged i like what i hear.

well i guess i order a new bridge and route it for normal slant. The reverse slant sounded good on paper (cutting low strings (instead of anemic), smoother highs) and i always wanted to try it.
Guess no slant would be the best (with the biggest distance to the Bridge) but there is no Bridge for that available and also will look weird.
Maybe i'll try it on an Strat Pickguard someday.
Maybe I also try a Humbucker Bridge Pickup on another guitar further away from the Bridge than the normal distance for a fuller Sound, so the switch from neck to Bridge get's a little bit less drastic.

Or maybe i forget completely about the idea that those light 25.5" scale Fender style Instruments will ever satisfy me on the Bridge Position for a humbucker sound and get back to single coils.
But then i read often about teles being able to sound close to Lesters, where i do have no trouble to get a good humbucker sound out of (or SGs)

My experience seems to be that in lighter Guitars i love the neck pickup but have trouble with the Bridge Humbucker
In heavier ones the Bridge Humbucker is the heart of the Instrument and it's more easy to tame the Neck PU (more distance to the strings or even add a Highpass).
Only lately I tried to make the Bridge and the neck sound good for each individual guitar which worked out OK if the Bridge PU was the one sounding good.

just wanted this tele to have a heavier sound on the bridge than a single coil would get me.
before i route i will try the chopper in my other tele. (swamp ash, more heavy than current alder, normal slant) maybe the lil59 too, but don't think he will cut it since it's more APH-1 sounding than SH-1.
had the APH-1b over a century ago in a les paul and if i remember correctly it was too smooth and nasal for my liking. I Like the neck though and still got it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

I wish I would have seen this thread a month ago, I could have saved you some trouble and expense. All of those who recommended the Lil 59 as being bright and clear and just what you were looking for were wrong. What you are experiencing with your Lil 59 is exactly what I would have told you...warm, middy, smooth, and round. Not at all similar to it's scooped and bright big brother the full-sized 59.

But now that you've got it, there are a couple thing you can try which may save it. First, definitely use a 500k or 1 meg vol pot with a Lil 59. That will brighten it up somewhat. Another thing you can try is to wire the pup in parallel instead of series (instead of soldering the red and white wires together and taping them off, solder the red and black wires together and use as the lead, and solder the white and green wires together and use as your ground wire). Parallel wiring brightens up a pup considerably, reduces the mids a lot and slightly reduces the bass, and it reduces the output to give you a much clearer sound and when boosted will give you a more raw and cutting crunch).

If these mods don't give you what you want, then you could consider changing pups or doing the other mods you mentioned.

Oh, one question...is your bridge pup mounted in the Tele bridge plate or do you have a more conventional bridge and pup direct mounted to body?

 

[Synapsys]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

My suggestion would by a Hot Stack Tele. If you don't mind the modern single large rail look, it's ane incredibly vesatile pickup. On my ESP LTD Tele clone I have it wired for series/parallel/split, paired with an A2Pro humbucker on the neck, wired the same. This Tele goes from classic Tele sounds (not 100% accurate, of course, but it gets me in the ballpark easily) to Death Metal with zero noise.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

My suggestion would by a Hot Stack Tele. If you don't mind the modern single large rail look, it's ane incredibly vesatile pickup. On my ESP LTD Tele clone I have it wired for series/parallel/split, paired with an A2Pro humbucker on the neck, wired the same. This Tele goes from classic Tele sounds (not 100% accurate, of course, but it gets me in the ballpark easily) to Death Metal with zero noise.

Interesting, i think i've never stumbled upon this pickup. The Sound samples on the duncan page are in series i guess. to my ear's it's sound more like a hot single coil than a humbucker, which is not what i am looking for right now, but is something i may use in the future beacuase it might be a lot bigger to my ears under gain than a regular single.
i keep an eye out for this one, too.
Thanks

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

I wish I would have seen this thread a month ago, I could have saved you some trouble and expense.

bad luck on my part.

All of those who recommended the Lil 59 as being bright and clear and just what you were looking for were wrong.

Well to be fair they said they "think/guess" and also they were talking about the strat version which has total different DC reading and therefore is not the same PU.

What you are experiencing with your Lil 59 is exactly what I would have told you...warm, middy, smooth, and round. Not at all similar to it's scooped and bright big brother the full-sized 59.

Yes with this description i would have skipped this experiment

But now that you've got it, there are a couple thing you can try which may save it. First, definitely use a 500k or 1 meg vol pot with a Lil 59. That will brighten it up somewhat. Another thing you can try is to wire the pup in parallel instead of series (instead of soldering the red and white wires together and taping them off, solder the red and black wires together and use as the lead, and solder the white and green wires together and use as your ground wire). Parallel wiring brightens up a pup considerably, reduces the mids a lot and slightly reduces the bass, and it reduces the output to give you a much clearer sound and when boosted will give you a more raw and cutting crunch).

If these mods don't give you what you want, then you could consider changing pups or doing the other mods you mentioned.

Well i got it with 250k and NO Tone which is more or less the same as 500k vol + 500k tone but i'will wire it directly to the jack to see if that helps. But i think it will just add ice pick highs, with the mids still very prominent.
My experience with split and parallel goes also back to the APH-1b times, which is a long time ago. i should try it again but as far as i remember the parallel sound isn't at all, what i have in my head right now.

Oh, one question...is your bridge pup mounted in the Tele bridge plate or do you have a more conventional bridge and pup direct mounted to body?

it's mounted to the Gotoh GTC201 Tele bridge plate.

Well in the meantime i decided to move this experiment to my 3rd and last Tele which is more traditional sounding, but it's normal slant, heavier and the Neck PU in that one is more than 1k hotter and i think it uses the same magnets and wiresize.
So the bridge from that one goes to the light new Tele (reverse or normal) and the light one will then be my more traditional sounds. i'm sure this way it will be a better match.

With the neck being hotter i can use less gain on the amp which will make the Bridge sound less compressed. I think one of the biggest problems until now is that i have to run the gain at around 1 o'clock for the neck and therefore bridge. the normal 59 i run between 11,5 and 12 o'clock.


Meanwhile on one of my Les Pauls i have now installed a Screamin' Demon SH-12 in the Bridge, and i absolutly love this one (caution: honeymoon phase but this might last forever). For Leads i have to saturate it a little bit more with gain (which is fine and practical) because of the bright attack on plain strings.
The rythm sound is what i kind of always dreamed of! (for mid to heavy gain)
No mid honk! finally don't have to scoop the amp anymore. I don't have to fight the Pickup!
No muffled Strings at all, even if you turn down the gain or play super soft.
not as compressed if i play with a strong attack.
Always defined and super tight. Bass is firm but deep!
much bigger and cleaner sounding than paf type pickups under mid to heavy gain. it sounds less distorted than the 59, pearly gates, ... on the same setting.
I always liked the 59 but the resulting sound was never as big as i hoped for. which is OK and makes it kind of more vintage sounding to me.

now i think the demon will also be a good bet for my Tele (no mid honk and still defined under more gain than i normally use), but sadly the lil version is not available for Teles

 

[elelpe]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

This guitar should excel in the distorion department.

I want more of a raw sound, grit, crunch, attack with this guitar.

You won't get it from Fast Track. It's a loud noiseless single coil. And brighter than lil '59. Has it to be a humbucker? When people say teles being able to sound close to Lesters, they're talking about Broadcaster/Nocaster type pickup with output level on a par with PAF. Duncan doesn't have it, but they have much louder Quarter Pond which excel in distortion and punchy instead of crunchy.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

I'd keep the Chopper! I'm out....


Maybe 500k pots?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

Chopper T with 500K pots and wired for series/split/parallel. I love it wired up that way when I had it in a Tele (sold the Tele body loaded, that's another story) and I have to say that configuration (it was the only pickup) was ridiculously versatile. Clean, light distortion, heavy distortion. You can't go wrong with it, IMO.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

Well i got it with 250k and NO Tone which is more or less the same as 500k vol + 500k tone

Well, no, not exactly. A 250k vol pot even with no tone pot is going to sound darker than a 500k vol pot with a 500k tone pot.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

You won't get it from Fast Track. It's a loud noiseless single coil. And brighter than lil '59. Has it to be a humbucker? When people say teles being able to sound close to Lesters, they're talking about Broadcaster/Nocaster type pickup with output level on a par with PAF. Duncan doesn't have it, but they have much louder Quarter Pond which excel in distortion and punchy instead of crunchy.

Thanks for the input!
Ok i guess i can skip the fast track experiment then.
it won't have the girth/growl (which might be the word i was looking for all along).
yes the hot singles start to get punchy and thick in the mids, maybe for future use, but not what i have in my mind right now.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

I'd keep the Chopper! I'm out....


Maybe 500k pots?

Yeah i'll keep it, alright.
The questions is just where, in the bridge or in the drawer
no, i may keep it in one of my 3 teles.

yeah i order the pots

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Chopper T vs lil 59 vs. Fast Track for Tele Bridge

Chopper T with 500K pots and wired for series/split/parallel. I love it wired up that way when I had it in a Tele (sold the Tele body loaded, that's another story) and I have to say that configuration (it was the only pickup) was ridiculously versatile. Clean, light distortion, heavy distortion. You can't go wrong with it, IMO.

i might keep it, although it's not exactly the sound i am looking for right now. i only got 2 pots and one is a TBX tone control and the other is a already used push pull pot, so right now i have no space. i don't care too much for versatility. the sound has to be near perfect in one setup. everything else is a bonus, but if i got a guitar with a true single and it outshines the split sound, the split sound will not get used. i don't have a cover band