Coil Split options

[Mumblefratz]

New to site please excuse me if this has been previously covered.

For the last 20 years I've predominately been a Tele player and never had much reason to deal with humbuckers, however last Christmas I bought an American Standard Gibson Les Paul and I've spent a fair amount of time lately looking over various "jimmy Page" wiring options. One of the simpler questions I have related to this is about various methods of performing a "coil split".

The most common method I've seen shorts out the inner coils leaving the outer coils (the ones with the slotted screws) active. I have also seen the outer coils shorted however the method that I'm most interested in actually treats a humbucker as 2 single coil pickups and essentially puts them in parallel by connecting North start to South finish and South start to North finish. I apologize in advance if my nomenclature is incomplete or confusing, it should be obvious that my experience in this area is somewhat limited.

My first question is are there any other legitimate ways to split a coil? Secondly, of these or other methods, is one noticeably better than the others? The reason that I'm interested in connecting the 2 single coils of a humbucking pickup in parallel is that I've noticed that generally when you split a coil the output of the pickup goes down a bit. I'm hoping that putting the single coils of a humbucking pickup in parallel will reduce or eliminate this decrease in output and therefore make coil split in this manner more compatible when put in parallel with a unmodified humbucking pickup.

Again I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge in this regards and am really most interested in gaining the experience of those that have far more of it than I.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Coil Split options

Hi Mumblefratz... welcome to the forum!

The Seymour Duncan site itself (under Support and then Wiring Diagrams) has some great resources that may help you. First, go here to see how to split a coil for either North or South.

As for your question on parallel vs split, parallel actually tends to have the opposite effect from what you're looking for. This is a little bit of an over-simplification, but when a signal runs in series, it goes from one coil to another and you end up with the output of two coils added together. With a split, the signal has only one coil, so it ends up having a little less output. When you run in parallel you essentially end up cutting the signal (half to each coil) and the output is decreased even further.

Parallel is still a cool sound though... kind of single-coilish and it has the advantage of being hum-canceling (split coils are not... they're essentially single coil pups at that point). I have three-way minis on the guitar in my avatar for each pickup that allow me to switch between series, split and parallel. You can find that diagram here.

Hope that helps, and again... welcome to the forum!

Brian

 

[AlexR]

Re: Coil Split options

Bri, the parallel explanation you have is a bit wrong. The signal is not 'split between coils'. The coils are the generator of the signals. Its like having two batteries in parallel. Both are pushing out signal at the same time. The fact that they are not adding together in series means that its kind of like a whole crowd trying to get into the entrance of a department store on the first day of a sale. Generally a lot of pushing and shoving and not 2x the signal. In fact there is a bit of cancellation - think of the quack positions in a strat. The meat of the signal gets a bit lost hence its use in funk for that 'naturally compressed' nature, but there is not really a drop in some of the spectrum so it generally has no volume drop compared with split.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Coil Split options

Bri, the parallel explanation you have is a bit wrong...

You know, I was kinda feeling that I was a little off but didn't stop to double-check myself. Thanks for the correction.

It does seem, however, that I hear a slight drop in volume when switching from split to parallel... perhaps it is just the "smoother" sound of the two coils running together (and hum canceling) vs the more "raw" sound of the single coil by itself.

Anyway, thanks for setting me straight! [emoji6]


[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]

 

[AlexR]

Re: Coil Split options

^ Its more the cancellation I find that cuts off the 'power'. If you play the split there is a degree of body to the tone which you lose in the parallel. Its like the '15yo GC scooped middle tone'. It all depends on the pickup and how it is wound plus the guitar. I've had some pickups do really well with parallel and others just plain suck.......so its not just the parallel setting that is the issue. The JB is actually one of those good examples of parallel working better than split. A couple of PAF style pickups also exhibit this.....but its been a long time since I've had splitting options for my low output guitars so I can't remember which models worked better.

 

[Mumblefratz]

Re: Coil Split options

Thanks for the responses. I was thinking more in terms of power output versus just the summation of the coil voltages but of course it's a factor of both. I feel the battery analogy is very apt. It's one thing to theorize what the effect would be but with multiple passive components the secondary parasitic effects can be almost as important as the components primary physics.

The output level thing was something that I threw out there simply because it's something concrete to discuss but ultimately what's most important is what sounds "cooler", which is extremely subjective but it's exactly that subjective opinion that I'm looking for since otherwise my only option is to wire up and try each possibility which quickly gets overly cumbersome.

Perhaps easier is to get folk's subjective opinion on which coil shorted (slugs or screws) produces "cooler" sounds (or perhaps that it really doesn't matter because they both sound pretty much the same) as well as find out the subjective opinion of someone that has experience paralleling single humbucker coils.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Coil Split options

With parallel, the output in terms of volume will be effectively like a coil split. If you are trying to get something like series output then parallel is not a solution. The better options are spin-a-split or maybe a version of a 'fat tap' - where you switch in a cap to remove some of the frequencies from 1 coil.

 

[Mumblefratz]

Re: Coil Split options

I'm convinced to give up on trying to parallel the single coils of a humbucker and just go with a standard coil split.

Does anyone have any experience of using the slug side of the coil versus the screw side? Does it make any real difference and if it does which way is "cooler"?

Does anyone know if there are any YouTube videos where various of these pickup wiring options are compared?

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Coil Split options

On most humbuckers there is little difference between the two coils. It has more to do with distance from the bridge than anything else, meaning that you may get a difference between the two coils of your bridge pup, but probably almost imperceptible in your neck pup. If you have something like P-Rails, where the two coils are built completely different from one another, then you'll start noticing the difference.

Personally, I'd cut the slug side if for no other reason than that the screw side is adjustable.

You could also get some Triple Shots.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/accessories/triple-shot-mou/
It would make the wiring easier and give you all the options (series, parallel, screw coil or slug coil) so you could decide for yourself what you like best.


[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]

 

[blueman335]

Re: Coil Split options

Does anyone have any experience of using the slug side of the coil versus the screw side? Does it make any real difference and if it does which way is "cooler"?

On a bridge HB, the slug coil is almost twice as far from the bridge as the screw coil, getting more string energy, and therefore won't be quite as thin and bright (and shrill) as the screw coil.

On neck HB's, I use spin-a-split to dial in unbalanced coils, as the best tones in that slot are those with an unequal mix of both coils (HB tone + single coil tone). You can still get full coil cut and full HB too with spin-a-split, but I don't find them nearly as useful.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Coil Split options

With parallel, the output in terms of volume will be effectively like a coil split. If you are trying to get something like series output then parallel is not a solution. The better options are spin-a-split or maybe a version of a 'fat tap' - where you switch in a cap to remove some of the frequencies from 1 coil.

+1 here

Another alternative to spin-split uses a plain resistor between the selected coil and ground, allowing a fixed amount of the signal to be bled off. No tweaking- less adjustable but s consistent and repeatable. And it doesn't require giving up one of your control knobs.

I have this setup in a PRS with 57/08s. These are vintage-output humbuckers that probably would be on the weak side if fully split. But they sound stellar with the resistor tap. I am extremely pleased with the arrangement, and I'll never make do with a wimpy traditional coiltap again.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Coil Split options

+1 here

Another alternative to spin-split uses a plain resistor between the selected coil and ground, allowing a fixed amount of the signal to be bled off. No tweaking- less adjustable but s consistent and repeatable. And it doesn't require giving up one of your control knobs.

- Rather than a fixed sound, like your resistor method or coil cut, spin-a-split gives you the flexibility to dial as much, or as little of the 2nd coil as you want. Hard to beat that.

- Most of my guitars are 4 knob, and I've never used the tone knob on the neck HB to reduce treble (I always want more treble and clarity there), so I'm putting to use a knob that otherwise sits idle.

 

[TheMadGypsyBaron]

Re: Coil Split options

I'm convinced to give up on trying to parallel the single coils of a humbucker and just go with a standard coil split.

You don't necessarily give up. You can get DPDT on/on/on switches and get Series, Parallel, AND true coil splits.
You use those to make the bridge go through those options, and the same with the neck. And then, if you're basing your idea off Page, you can use Push Pulls for phase.

My Les Paul is set up like this, it was also based of Page's wiring:
Bridge Vol (Series/Coil Split on Bridge Pickup), DPDT Push Pull Pot on/on
Neck Vol (Series/Coil Split on Neck Pickup), DPDT Push Pull Pot on/on
Bridge Tone (In and Out of Phase between coils on Bridge Pickup), DPDT Push Pull Pot on/on
Neck Tone (In and Out of Phase between coils on Bridge Pickup), DPDT Push Pull Pot on/on
Mini Push Push DPDT #1 underneath pickguard (In and Out of Phase between Bridge and Neck Pickup)
Mini Push Push DPDT #2 underneath pickguard (Series/Parallel between Bridge and Neck Pickup)

Of course, in Page fashion, I had buttons installed under the pickguard, but you can just have the mods done without those to make it look stock even upon super close inspection. In terms of slug vs screw side being active in single coil mode, I couldn't tell you. I had my tech mod it for me and I'm not quite advanced enough to follow the schematic THAT well.

 

[Mumblefratz]

Re: Coil Split options

You could also get some Triple Shots.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/accessories/triple-shot-mou/
It would make the wiring easier and give you all the options (series, parallel, screw coil or slug coil) so you could decide for yourself what you like best.


[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]

Perfect. This is great! I absolutely must have a set of these. Thanks!!!

 

[Mumblefratz]

Re: Coil Split options

You don't necessarily give up. You can get DPDT on/on/on push pull pots and get Series, Parallel, AND true coil splits

I've never heard of these before but these seem like must have's as well. I did a quick search but apparently my google fu is not quite up to snuff. Can you suggest a vendor that would carry these?

I'm a sucker for neat technology. I have http://freewayswitch.com/download-pdfs/free-way-3x3-05-diagrams.html on order. Not quite sure what I'm going to do with it but I just have to have one.

 

[Mumblefratz]

Re: Coil Split options

- Rather than a fixed sound, like your resistor method or coil cut, spin-a-split gives you the flexibility to dial as much, or as little of the 2nd coil as you want. Hard to beat that.

- Most of my guitars are 4 knob, and I've never used the tone knob on the neck HB to reduce treble (I always want more treble and clarity there), so I'm putting to use a knob that otherwise sits idle.

Amen on more treble. I once was in an "ensemble" organized by a music school I once attended that I quit because the instructor complained that my vintage Tele was too "harsh".

On my Les Paul I've been using my pots as Neck volume, Bridge volume, Master volume and Master tone. I don't think I've ever voluntarily turned down the treble on any guitar though I will on occasion turn down the treble on the amp but even then I doubt I've ever gone lower than an 8.

 

[Mumblefratz]

Re: Coil Split options

This has all been great stuff that I wouldn't have thought of on my own.

Thank you all very much for your helpful suggestions.

 

[TheMadGypsyBaron]

Re: Coil Split options

Well dang, I apparently had a brain fart. :doh: I checked the diagram my tech made for me when I had my Les Paul modded, and I adjusted the post I made accordingly.
So a DPDT on/on/on is only in a 3 way switch form, oops. Didn't mean to mislead you. Dimarzio is known for this type of switch, and it is used to be able to do Series/Parallel/Coil Splits with one switch, so at least I got something right haha

DPDT Push Pull Potentiometers are just on/on and those are the ones I have in my guitar. They're very useful if you're going for the "unmodded" look. You can only use them for two option switches, so Series/Parallel, Series/Coil Split, and probably even Parallel/Coil Split if you want your humbuckers to have that single coil type sound the whole time.
Also, quick side note if you're going to look for Push Pull Pots, you'll probably want 500k Ohm ones with your humbuckers for that classic humbucker tone with the highs coming through the way you want. Also, you might want to check out the differences between Modern and Vintage (aka 50s) wiring between your tone and volume pots. Quoting the Seymour Duncan blog: "The modern version will maintain the overall volume better when you roll down the volume but at the cost of losing a bit of high end. If you have a bright pickup that may not seem that bad of an idea, because with less volume and the same amount of treble the tone might be too piercing. On the other hand, the 50s version keeps the amount of treble the same but drops a bit in volume as soon as you roll down the tone pot."

Sorry about the misinformation at first, we're all here to learn though, aren't we?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Coil Split options

I'm a sucker for neat technology. I have http://freewayswitch.com/download-pdfs/free-way-3x3-05-diagrams.html on order. Not quite sure what I'm going to do with it but I just have to have one.

I've been fascinated with those 6-way switches for a while now; it's so cool that they can replace a stock Gibson 3-way! Been thinking about exploring more options in my 3-pickup SG Custom, and the Freeway sounds ideal. Could sure give you a whole lotta extra options in a Les Paul too.

 

[TheMadGypsyBaron]

Re: Coil Split options

I've been fascinated with those 6-way switches for a while now

Same here! I've had a Black Beauty wiring scheme in my head since I saw the Jimmy Page model Black Beauty with the 6 way switch. My only problem with the 6 way switch is that you don't have the option to have only the middle pickup, but I'm sure you can make a Push Pull shut off a pickup to only get the middle one.
Now I just need money for a Beauty...