coil tapping for HH guitar...

N

namklak

New member
Hi,
I've been a Strat guy for decades, usually configed as HSS. I always tap the H for use with the other pickups, for quack, etc. Now I have a SG-like HH guitar, with a 3 position switch. With the current cheap stock pickups, the middle position sounds okay and I use it live. I'm buying an APH-1n for the neck and SH-11 CC for the bridge. Info: Allman Bros tribute, SG has a sycamore sort-of-bright body with rosewood fb on mahogany neck.
For the switch center position, how will a tapped tone differ from an untapped tone?
I'm trying to decide if I should go thru the effort (which really isn't that much effort) to add a tapping switch on a push-pull pot...
Also, anyone have any comments about this pickup combo?
Thanks!
-Bob
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

The middle position, if tapped like the PRS rotary switch, with outer coils in a makeshift humbucker, will have this airy "third humbucker" sound. It won't sound as powerful as the traditional "two humbuckers" sound that most people associate with middle position on a Les Paul. You may like this sound more. Is your three way switch up top like a Les Paul? Or down near your volume and tone knobs?
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

Robert Delahunt said:
Is your three way switch up top like a Les Paul? Or down near your volume and tone knobs?
Click to expand...
Interesting question, it's down by the volume/tone knob (one each). I would put the tap on a push-pull pot, probably the tone. Why do you ask about location?
Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I suppose I could just do it, and have that option...
No one has commented on my choice of pickups - I'm sure it's hard to go wrong unless they were completely mis-matched...
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

Robert Delahunt said:
The middle position, if tapped like the PRS rotary switch, with outer coils in a makeshift humbucker, will have this airy "third humbucker" sound.
Click to expand...
I thought about using the north of one and the south of the other, but I didn't think about the physical distance of the coils chosen. I suppose the more distance between them, the more tonal distance of the two coils. Like using a Strat bridge and a Strat neck, which I've actually wired on two Strats. But I don't find that tone as usable as pairing two coils right next to each other. Anyone have any comments about tapping and using the coils close to each other - or the coils apart from each other?
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

CC's are pretty warm in most mahogany guitars, usually not a lot of high-end. For SG's, we often put a different magnet in a CC, an A8 or UOA5, both of which have a sharper edge and more output (especially the A8). A2P's a great choice for the neck slot.

Here's what I'd do:
- Put an A8 or UOA5 magnet in the bridge. Easy to do, there's online video instruction.

- Convert the neck tone pot to spin-a-split (a volume pot for one coil only) to give those great unbalanced coil sounds of the 1950's PAF's, all the way down to coil cut. No additional parts needed. Very simple mod (wiring diagrams online).

- Put a push-pull on the bridge PU for coil cut, but wire it with the red wire as hot and white as ground (black and green connected). This leaves the slug coil on in coil cut mode, and in combination with the neck PU dialed down to coil cut, gives a 'virtual' HB sound (separated coils, like a Strat in positions 2 and 4).

This gives you a lot of tonal versatility, costs hardly anything (just a magnet and a push-pull), and doesn't require a luthier.
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

blueman335 said:
- Put a push-pull on the bridge PU for coil cut, but wire it with the red wire as hot and white as ground (black and green connected). This leaves the slug coil on in coil cut mode, and in combination with the neck PU dialed down to coil cut, gives a 'virtual' HB sound (separated coils, like a Strat in positions 2 and 4).
Click to expand...

Yeah, that or one push/pull that splits both, so that middle is humbuckerish. I asked where the OP had the switch, I should've asked if it is a blade switch. If it's a blade switch, IMHO, the StewMac P-switch would be better, giving various combinations of splits, freeing up the volume and tone push/pull for various other things. But to each his own. My first SD-pickup guitar had a Les Paul style 3-way switch, so I just made the volume push/pull split the neck and the tone push/pull split the bridge. Made switching to "third humbucker" harder, but gave me more options. Still, to each his own.
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

blueman335 said:
CC's are pretty warm in most mahogany guitars, usually not a lot of high-end. For SG's, we often put a different magnet in a CC, an A8 or UOA5, both of which have a sharper edge and more output (especially the A8). A2P's a great choice for the neck slot.
Click to expand...
I've ordered the pickups, but they haven't arrived at Guitar Center yet - so I can skip the CC. My "SG" has a sycamore body, and I haven't dealt with that before, and most people don't know either. It's dead when I knock on the body, and I've read it's brighter than mahogany but not as bright as maple. Acoustically it's not real loud... So please anyone suggest a pickup.
I'm moderately qualified with a soldering iron and I'm an embedded engineer, so all the wiring suggestions are welcome...
Thanks to all.
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

What do you want in a bridge PU, overwound and high output? Or vintage PAF? With an AP1 in the neck, I'd probably use an AP2 or Seth in the bridge.
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

So no one is going to notice the 800 pound gorilla in the room and tell this guy that he is looking to do coil splitting not coil tapping?
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

Securb said:
So no one is going to notice the 800 pound gorilla in the room and tell this guy that he is looking to do coil splitting not coil tapping?
Click to expand...
It's been a couple of years since I've done any mods - so I am indeed looking to split the coils, not tap a coil.
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

blueman335 said:
What do you want in a bridge PU, overwound and high output? Or vintage PAF? With an AP1 in the neck, I'd probably use an AP2 or Seth in the bridge.
Click to expand...
No Seth Lover - I need potted. I'll do any electrical, but no mechanical stuff including potting. AP2 is twp wire, so no splitting available. Above you mentioned mod'ing the CC with alnico5 magnet - is that the same as a SH-14? Would SH-14 be too hot compared to the aph-1 in the neck? Will the SH-14 be too bright in the bridge of a guitar with a non-mahogany body?
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

namklak said:
No Seth Lover - I need potted. I'll do any electrical, but no mechanical stuff including potting. AP2 is twp wire, so no splitting available. Above you mentioned mod'ing the CC with alnico5 magnet - is that the same as a SH-14? Would SH-14 be too hot compared to the aph-1 in the neck? Will the SH-14 be too bright in the bridge of a guitar with a non-mahogany body?
Click to expand...

Correct, a CC (SH-11) with an A5 magnet becomes a C5 (SH-14), and a Custom (SH-5) with a ceramic. None of them are too hot to match with a PAF-type neck PU.

C5's were a lot more popular here before two magnets came along: A8 and UOA5. CC's were often too dark for most guitars except Strats, and C5's are bright and thin, which mahogany helps tame. For many of us, C8's and UO C5's have replaced C5's and CC's. There's been threads here asking Duncan to make the C8 a production model. It's a great PU: warm and full, tight low-end, strong output, good cleans. It's like the best of a C5 and CC combined. UO C5's are closer to a CC with the texture and dynamics, but with a sharper high-end, so they work well in mahogany.

You can get a C5, see what you think, and then you have a few options if you think it's too bright and scooped. One being a warmer magnet. There's also 250K pots and 470K resistors.

For lower output bridge PU's: I have several A2P's, all are 4-conductor.
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

namklak said:
No Seth Lover - I need potted. I'll do any electrical, but no mechanical stuff including potting. AP2 is twp wire, so no splitting available. Above you mentioned mod'ing the CC with alnico5 magnet - is that the same as a SH-14? Would SH-14 be too hot compared to the aph-1 in the neck? Will the SH-14 be too bright in the bridge of a guitar with a non-mahogany body?
Click to expand...

If you special order a pickup, it can come four-wire, assuming this is a humbucker we're speaking of. You can even special order a potted four-conductor Seth Lover if you really wanted. Just putting that out there....

EDIT: and blueman335 has some that he might sell you if you ask....
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

So here is what a Schecter Daisy Rock sounds like with the stock Schecter over-wounds in the Bridge position:
http://youtu.be/p7JaSrw0Y_0?t=1m20s
This is a sycamore body and the whole guitar weighs 6 pounds. Don't need you to throw tomatoes, just judge the tone, please.
And here is the neck pickup - but I switch to the bridge at 2:11 and back to the neck at 2:30
http://youtu.be/MHp_YphVyv0?t=1m11s

Again, pickups suggestions please...
 
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Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

namklak said:
So here is what a Schecter Daisy Rock sounds like with the stock Schecter over-wounds in the Bridge position:
http://youtu.be/p7JaSrw0Y_0?t=1m20s
This is a sycamore body and the whole guitar weighs 6 pounds. Don't need you to throw tomatoes, just judge the tone, please.
And here is the neck pickup - but I switch to the bridge at 2:11 and back to the neck at 2:30
http://youtu.be/MHp_YphVyv0?t=1m11s

Again, pickups suggestions please...
Click to expand...

Based on your original question, split, you'd have more tone options. Are these sound clips this with the pickups you ordered installed? You sound good already.
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

Thanks. And as was noted somewhere in this thread, I should've said SPLIT, not TAP.
No, those are the stock Schecter pickups, and they squeal - can't have that. I was fairly happy until they squealed with a large PA, with the band leader throwing a frown my way... Time for potted pickups...
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

I understand. Well since this is an Allman brothers tribute band, and you ordered what I think (if I remember correctly) are the right pickups, you should be good to go once they arrive. The coil split will give you more options, but this is a bit subjective: it depends on what you want. If you did it 3-way switch plus one push/pull to split both, you'd get (with the push/pull activated)

1: Neck split
2: Neck and middle split but together
3. Bridge split

You may not like any position except 2 and maybe 3 at this point. But is yours a 3-way switch like a Les Paul or a blade switch more like a Stratocaster? From the video I can't tell. If it were a blade switch, I'd just order the StewMac P-Switch. No fiddling with push/pull at this point. Then you'd have:

1 Bridge pickup
2 Inner pickup coils, parallel
3 Outer coils, series
4 Outer coils, parallel
5 Neck pickup

So you'd have your traditional neck and bridge pickup positions, but then you'd have 2 and 4, which would quack, and 3, which would act as your "third humbucker" taking one coil from both the neck and the bridge.

So it's up to you, what options you have, and what you want. What kind of switch do you have?
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

A 3 way, with one volume one tone. I was initially thinking your 3 way switch option, having one push-poll pot with a DPDT split both coils simultaneously. But then I read about making each pot a switch, to split the pickups individually. That way you get some interesting combos like a single with hb. The question I have to ask myself is would I do much switching within a song. If I'm to switch within a song, I'd probably want just the single switch. I'm really a Strat guy, so the sole purpose of this guitar is AllBros, so I don't think I need a tone of tonal options. And I do have a Strat onstage anyway, which is very uniquely wired for tons of tonal options...
 
Re: coil tapping for HH guitar...

I hear ya. At this point, if you have the Strat on stage, you can think of wiring your current guitar for splitting as one of those "just in case" things, like just in case you forget your strat. A split humbucker won't sound exactly like a strat, but the option, in my opinion, is worth having.
 
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