cone cry and power ratings

[scottish]

so lew told me that weber 12s are very prone to cone cry when undoped and lose a lot of liveliness when doped.

this leads me to a question that probably originates from lack of understanding about how cone cry occurs. All i know right now is that it happens at high volumes with certain picking techniques.

So my question, is it just the loud volumes...or is it the fact that the speaker is nearing its power rating when the amp is cranked? Which of course leads to me asking, can you avoid cone cry by using a speaker that is, lets say, doube the power rating of your amp?

The flip side of this, is that some people will argue that the speaker will not get its true tone since its not getting pushed.

I dont know if any of this is correct...which i why i posted it...so you guys can tell me :fingersx:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: cone cry and power ratings

I was playing my new Big Apple Strat through my Deluxe Reverb with a Celestion G12H30 this moring and really pushing it. I didn't use any pedals or anything...just the amp cranked up to about 7 to get overdrive. I've owned this amp in exactly this configuration for many years now and never heard cone cry from the G12H30 speaker - until this morning.

I was really testing this new guitar and really digging in with the pick. When I would hit a high E at the 12th fret of the high E string and up-pick very aggressively to make it sting and sustain the speaker would go into that annoying resonance called cone cry.

Guess I never pushed it that hard before. It would only do it on the high E string and I could get it to do it with a 12th fret E or a 13th fret F. It only did it with those notes and only when up-picked aggressively to generate a pinch harmonic.

I had a Vintage 30 in this same amp years ago that would do that...but it would do it much more easily. The Vintage 30 was a 60 watt speaker being pushed by a 22 watt amp...so I don't think it had anything to do with it being pushed at near its wattage handling capability. It was just that that particular speaker suffered from the speaker resonance called "cone cry".

Ted makes excellent speakers. His 12's are excellent as are his 10's. But, IMO, his 12's do have a tendency to produce cone cry more easily than my favorite 12" speakers from Celestion. Ted does dope his 12" speakers heavily to prevent cone cry but that dulls the treble.

Cone cry is not even an issue for most players, but it is for me because the way I play I seem to coax it out of a speaker more than most players do.

 

[MikeS]

Re: cone cry and power ratings

I'm sure there are many more speaker savvy guys than me here, but as I understand it it's when the voice coil is driving the speaker hard enough to make the cone material vibrate loud enough to be audible, and that the frequency of this vibration isn't always harmonically related. The frequency and amplitude of the cone vibration varies as input changes. In a guitar loudspeaker you want that vibration in the cone for tone coloration, but you don't want it to strong enough to be heard on its own. Doping stiffens the cone material, which solves the cone cry but dampens cone vibration and changes the tone, sensitivity, and efficiency of the speaker.

Go check out high end home and car audio drivers. The cones are metal, urethane, fiber reinforced, resin reinforced, etc. The cones are very stiff and don't resonate well... which makes them perfect for accurate sound recreation.

 

[scottish]

Re: cone cry and power ratings

ive gotten it too, just never knew what it was until i read your post the other day. i always thought it was sloppy technique or something. i think i will still end up going with a weber 12 only because im pimping out my blues junior which is my at home amp and i never play all that loud at home.

right now im favoring the blue dog

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: cone cry and power ratings

ive gotten it too, just never knew what it was until i read your post the other day. i always thought it was sloppy technique or something. i think i will still end up going with a weber 12 only because im pimping out my blues junior which is my at home amp and i never play all that loud at home.

right now im favoring the blue dog

The Blue Dog is a good speaker for a tweed Fender...like a 5E3 Deluxe. I didn't like it as much in a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb.

Ted used to call it the P12B. I've owned several. It's similar to a Celestion G12 alnico blue but not nearly as bright or quite as deep.

But it has a nice plucky tone...what my brother Bruce describes as a "thumby" tone. You know how your thumb looks? That's how the Blue Dog sounds.

Lew

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: cone cry and power ratings

Cone Cry is a real pain in the neck however like Lew said it tends not to bother a lot of guys (or they simply never notice!)...

doping will help but it's a double edge thiung...doping will kill off (or reduce) the cone cry but it will also kill off a lot of the attack and punch of the speaker...they start to sound fat and lazy!

In general smaller spakers don;t do it as bad as larger speakers, also they say that hemp cone speakers are VERY good about it...makes me want to try one and see!

 

[James Rock]

Re: cone cry and power ratings

Ted makes excellent speakers. His 12's are excellent as are his 10's. But, IMO, his 12's do have a tendency to produce cone cry more easily than my favorite 12" speakers from Celestion. Ted does dope his 12" speakers heavily to prevent cone cry but that dulls the treble.

Isn't the amount of doping variable on order or is it still alot with light doping?