Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL34's?
- Thread starter theWalrus
- Start date
- Status
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
KT66s were in the Cream amps.
KT66s were in the Cream amps.
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Yeah, sounds right. I've just found this in-depth Cream website:
http://gpatt.customer.netspace.net.au/cream/loud_and_louder3.htm
where it says 1959 Super Lead with KT66. I have a hand-wired 1959 Super Lead, and I'm going to check if there is any mod needed for KT66 replacement. I can't quite get "the" woman tone with EL34's.
Yeah, sounds right. I've just found this in-depth Cream website:
http://gpatt.customer.netspace.net.au/cream/loud_and_louder3.htm
where it says 1959 Super Lead with KT66. I have a hand-wired 1959 Super Lead, and I'm going to check if there is any mod needed for KT66 replacement. I can't quite get "the" woman tone with EL34's.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Good luck with modern KT66's. Most are just 6L6's in a bigger bottle but none of them sound like a GEC KT66. About 15 years ago i paid 300 dollars for pair of grey glass KT66's that were still NIB. Ive tried every new KT66 that comes on the market and they just dont quite cut it.
That being said the difference between EL34 and KT66 usually isnt the elusive factor to woman tone...
Good luck with modern KT66's. Most are just 6L6's in a bigger bottle but none of them sound like a GEC KT66. About 15 years ago i paid 300 dollars for pair of grey glass KT66's that were still NIB. Ive tried every new KT66 that comes on the market and they just dont quite cut it.
That being said the difference between EL34 and KT66 usually isnt the elusive factor to woman tone...
Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Did you try the JJ's KT-66's?
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Yes... They are a decent stab at actually making a kt66 instead of just being a rebottled other tube but when you get down to brass tacks they just dont hold a candle. They are missing a lot of the detail in the midrange and top end but the part i liked the least in them was how the felt. They felt cold and stiff. When you attacked the strings it didnt matter nearly as much if you hit hard or soft
Yes... They are a decent stab at actually making a kt66 instead of just being a rebottled other tube but when you get down to brass tacks they just dont hold a candle. They are missing a lot of the detail in the midrange and top end but the part i liked the least in them was how the felt. They felt cold and stiff. When you attacked the strings it didnt matter nearly as much if you hit hard or soft
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
The thing about the JJ KT66 is that it's the only modern tube that can handle up to 550V, and it's not from the same Shuguang Chinese factory all of the others seem to come from; it's from Slovakia. Here is a review from the tube store:
Maybe the EQ and dynamics you mentioned has more to do with the preamp tubes you had or the amp you were trying them through. Any plexi, even with the worst tubes, should have attack sensitivity.
Also the "stiffness" you mentioned could be due to how hot you biased your tubes. My amp technician pointed me that "metal" amps are usually biased really hot (500V+) and give that kind of tone.
The thing about the JJ KT66 is that it's the only modern tube that can handle up to 550V, and it's not from the same Shuguang Chinese factory all of the others seem to come from; it's from Slovakia. Here is a review from the tube store:
Maybe the EQ and dynamics you mentioned has more to do with the preamp tubes you had or the amp you were trying them through. Any plexi, even with the worst tubes, should have attack sensitivity.
Also the "stiffness" you mentioned could be due to how hot you biased your tubes. My amp technician pointed me that "metal" amps are usually biased really hot (500V+) and give that kind of tone.
Last edited:
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
I was comparing the 2 tubes in the exact same amp with the exact same preamp tubes, I tried them at different bias settings... Its not the same as a real GEC KT66. Are they bad sounding tubes? No they arent but they arent the same thing as original NOS tubes.
Did you read the review of it? Nothing i said went against it. For me if a tube can take up to 12340932432v doesnt matter if it doesnt cop the tone of the original tube its suppose to mimic. Its a fine tube buts not an equal to a GEC KT66. Yah dig?
I was comparing the 2 tubes in the exact same amp with the exact same preamp tubes, I tried them at different bias settings... Its not the same as a real GEC KT66. Are they bad sounding tubes? No they arent but they arent the same thing as original NOS tubes.
Did you read the review of it? Nothing i said went against it. For me if a tube can take up to 12340932432v doesnt matter if it doesnt cop the tone of the original tube its suppose to mimic. Its a fine tube buts not an equal to a GEC KT66. Yah dig?
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Maybe your misunderstanding where Iam coming from. I have 2 pairs of real KT66's after i got them and loved them I went searching for an alternate that wasnt so expensive. I tried LOTS of tubes. Know what happened at the end of my search? I paid 550 bucks for a pair of clear glass KT66's and now use those and the grey glass ones for special occasions. Every time a new KT66 hits the market i get excited and buy a pair or 2 to throw at my amps in hope that I can find the same sound. So far ive had no luck. Lots of good tubes but still not the same. Its in my best interest to find a replacement and give each tube a fair shake I would absolutely love to find that tone in something that i can buy for 80 bucks a pair but so far bupkis...
Oh and a side note... Everyone wets their pants that the JJ's can take up to 550v's... The originals had a design max of 500v's. If you change them to accept the extra power its harder to match the tone. If you ask me being the JJ's are in a 6550 bottle they are probably a reworking of a 6550 design but i cant prove it. Just a hunch.
Maybe your misunderstanding where Iam coming from. I have 2 pairs of real KT66's after i got them and loved them I went searching for an alternate that wasnt so expensive. I tried LOTS of tubes. Know what happened at the end of my search? I paid 550 bucks for a pair of clear glass KT66's and now use those and the grey glass ones for special occasions. Every time a new KT66 hits the market i get excited and buy a pair or 2 to throw at my amps in hope that I can find the same sound. So far ive had no luck. Lots of good tubes but still not the same. Its in my best interest to find a replacement and give each tube a fair shake I would absolutely love to find that tone in something that i can buy for 80 bucks a pair but so far bupkis...
Oh and a side note... Everyone wets their pants that the JJ's can take up to 550v's... The originals had a design max of 500v's. If you change them to accept the extra power its harder to match the tone. If you ask me being the JJ's are in a 6550 bottle they are probably a reworking of a 6550 design but i cant prove it. Just a hunch.
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
I see what you're saying.
Also, the one possibility to make an amp with JJ KT66 sound better EQ-wise may be to put the best preamp tubes you can find, like NOS Mullard, so in combination the tone is better. I'm actually having a Marshall 45/100 with that combination being set up. If it sounds good, it's a much more affordable solution than going broke with GEC's. :laugh2:
The thing about voltage handling is to avoid red-plating, fuse shorts, and damages to your amp. I've made the mistake of once ordering Valve Arts KT66... they don't even come with a datasheet. Needless to say, I returned them for the risk
The 45/100 came with some used old Gold Lions, and I was thinking of having them tested and put into the Super Lead for a better woman tone. I'm a huge Cream fan.
I see what you're saying.
Also, the one possibility to make an amp with JJ KT66 sound better EQ-wise may be to put the best preamp tubes you can find, like NOS Mullard, so in combination the tone is better. I'm actually having a Marshall 45/100 with that combination being set up. If it sounds good, it's a much more affordable solution than going broke with GEC's. :laugh2:
The thing about voltage handling is to avoid red-plating, fuse shorts, and damages to your amp. I've made the mistake of once ordering Valve Arts KT66... they don't even come with a datasheet. Needless to say, I returned them for the risk
The 45/100 came with some used old Gold Lions, and I was thinking of having them tested and put into the Super Lead for a better woman tone. I'm a huge Cream fan.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Well not to completely geek out on tubes but I have 4 Mullard CV4004's that I bought almost 20 years ago before people got hot onto how good they were if memory serves I paid 40 bucks each for them. I have a couple used Amperex bugle boys and a nice diamond plate telefunken. Then a slew of minor nos tubes like mazda, matsu****a, Ei, RFT, Tesla, I even have one minor brand of nos tubes that I think are excellent but never speak about on the net. The less people that are hot onto them the less people driving the price up.
What I do is put a nice nos tube in V1 then usually a minor nos in V2 and then a modern tube in V3 (at least for my stock 3 preamp tube marshalls that is)
Some amps respond very well to NOS glass others dont care. But using a mix like this allows me to enjoy my nos tubes but spread them around a bit.
Are you having Metropoulos build you one of his 45/100's? Those things are killer
Well not to completely geek out on tubes but I have 4 Mullard CV4004's that I bought almost 20 years ago before people got hot onto how good they were if memory serves I paid 40 bucks each for them. I have a couple used Amperex bugle boys and a nice diamond plate telefunken. Then a slew of minor nos tubes like mazda, matsu****a, Ei, RFT, Tesla, I even have one minor brand of nos tubes that I think are excellent but never speak about on the net. The less people that are hot onto them the less people driving the price up.
What I do is put a nice nos tube in V1 then usually a minor nos in V2 and then a modern tube in V3 (at least for my stock 3 preamp tube marshalls that is)
Some amps respond very well to NOS glass others dont care. But using a mix like this allows me to enjoy my nos tubes but spread them around a bit.
Are you having Metropoulos build you one of his 45/100's? Those things are killer
astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Woman tone? More like clapton-hands tone..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Woman tone? More like clapton-hands tone..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
No, mine is the 100JH, the Jimi Hendrix 45/100 from Marshall. They made 600 of those in 2006. Channel I has the Hendrix mod, and channel II is unchanged. Clapton used to plug straight into II or daisy-chain two heads at II.
Yeah, part of it certainly is. The other part is: tone knob of 335 at zero, wah-wah almost all the way down, every amp knob at 10, KT66 tubes, and "pinstripe" cabs. Another important factor is "speaker breakup", when Greenback G12H30 speakers are pushed to the limit, and there is high frequency roll-off from the pinstripe cloth. Add that all, and you have the best blues guitar I've ever heard.
No, mine is the 100JH, the Jimi Hendrix 45/100 from Marshall. They made 600 of those in 2006. Channel I has the Hendrix mod, and channel II is unchanged. Clapton used to plug straight into II or daisy-chain two heads at II.
Yeah, part of it certainly is. The other part is: tone knob of 335 at zero, wah-wah almost all the way down, every amp knob at 10, KT66 tubes, and "pinstripe" cabs. Another important factor is "speaker breakup", when Greenback G12H30 speakers are pushed to the limit, and there is high frequency roll-off from the pinstripe cloth. Add that all, and you have the best blues guitar I've ever heard.
astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Id say 90 percent is the right guitar with the right wiring and right pickups.
If you get the volume and tone knob ratio right you're almost there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Id say 90 percent is the right guitar with the right wiring and right pickups.
If you get the volume and tone knob ratio right you're almost there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
The GEC KT66 and 88 really were in a class of their own.
The GEC KT66 and 88 really were in a class of their own.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
You forgot the 0.015 cap.
You forgot the 0.015 cap.
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Yeah, "Mr. picky" here has a '63 ES-335 (50th anniversary reissue) with lessona-wound PAF replicas and black beauty caps, matching the original. It gets close. It's that last 10% that's elusive to my ears. I don't have G12H30 speakers, so that's a major item missing on top of the KT66's into the Superlead.
Yeah, "Mr. picky" here has a '63 ES-335 (50th anniversary reissue) with lessona-wound PAF replicas and black beauty caps, matching the original. It gets close. It's that last 10% that's elusive to my ears. I don't have G12H30 speakers, so that's a major item missing on top of the KT66's into the Superlead.
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
0.015 cap? Where? I've never heard of that.
0.015 cap? Where? I've never heard of that.
astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Man don't take this the wrong way but don't over think.
My gibsons with my British amp and cabs get close. 50s wiring helps.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Man don't take this the wrong way but don't over think.
My gibsons with my British amp and cabs get close. 50s wiring helps.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Cream-era Clapton tone with JMPs (after the 45/100's): Superlead with KT66 or EL3
Rhythm/neck pickup. Really, technically, it's not necessary at all. Just don't turn your tone knob all the way down. Turn it like 2/3 of the way down.
I was half joking because I've chased this tone just like you, and astro is right - you can get there without the absolute identical rig because in my experience so much is rolled off with the woman tone sound that much of the high end details that expose the difference between the amp, tubes, etc. is lost by the tone setting. But it sure is fun having a hand-wired JTM/JMP type amp with KT66s dimed and wailing through those Greenbacks.
What might be an interesting experiment is to change out one thing at a time. Like first get the cabinet/speakers. See how close you can get. Then get the head. See how close you can get. Then change tubes. See what affect it has. Last consider guitar mods. If you get there before needing the entire exact rig, you might save some money. If you go all the way, at least you will be an authority on what each component contributes to the sound.
Rhythm/neck pickup. Really, technically, it's not necessary at all. Just don't turn your tone knob all the way down. Turn it like 2/3 of the way down.
I was half joking because I've chased this tone just like you, and astro is right - you can get there without the absolute identical rig because in my experience so much is rolled off with the woman tone sound that much of the high end details that expose the difference between the amp, tubes, etc. is lost by the tone setting. But it sure is fun having a hand-wired JTM/JMP type amp with KT66s dimed and wailing through those Greenbacks.
What might be an interesting experiment is to change out one thing at a time. Like first get the cabinet/speakers. See how close you can get. Then get the head. See how close you can get. Then change tubes. See what affect it has. Last consider guitar mods. If you get there before needing the entire exact rig, you might save some money. If you go all the way, at least you will be an authority on what each component contributes to the sound.
- Status
