Did the magnet flip...

[Mincer]

...which went well, although that tape is pretty messy. However, one thing I didn't know, is that when you put it all back together, string up the guitar, and any combination of the CC and APH2 sounds like it may be 'out of phase', with a weak thin, hollow sound, about 1/4 the output of either hb alone. I am guessing this is the problem, because nothing else has changed- just a magnet flip.

Will a magnet flip change the sound of a pickup by itself? Or just cancel the hum if it is used with an opposing coil from another pickup? If so, then why aren't all neck and bridge pickups have their polarity opposite of one another?

Is this just a matter of reversing the hot & ground on one pickup to fix my phase problem?

uh, which is the hot, and which is the ground? :duh: (I am learning!)

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

...which went well, although that tape is pretty messy. However, one thing I didn't know, is that when you put it all back together, string up the guitar, and any combination of the CC and APH2 sounds like it may be 'out of phase', with a weak thin, hollow sound, about 1/4 the output of either hb alone. I am guessing this is the problem, because nothing else has changed- just a magnet flip.

Will a magnet flip change the sound of a pickup by itself? Or just cancel the hum if it is used with an opposing coil from another pickup? If so, then why aren't all neck and bridge pickups have their polarity opposite of one another?

Is this just a matter of reversing the hot & ground on one pickup to fix my phase problem?

uh, which is the hot, and which is the ground? :duh: (I am learning!)

Dave...Did you get the polarity correct on the magnet? North faces the slugs....See if Brian has one of those magnet polarity checkers and check your magnet polaritys....I have the tester or you can use a compass...If you get the magnet in wrong,you will have problems..

 

[Mincer]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

i flipped it, like the FAQs say, like a pancake......

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

i flipped it, like the FAQs say, like a pancake......

Did you purposely want your magnet polarity to be opposite ala Peter Green's Les Paul? It would still be good to know what your magnet polarities are?

 

[tone4days]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

if all you did was a magnet flip, and the results are as you describe, then it sounds like you did the flip right

problem is, you need to do more than the flip to get the results i diagramed .. you need to use the right switch (superswitch, not megaswitch) and you need to wire it like i showed, with the green and black from the flipped pickup wired 'unconventionally'

black is USUALLY hot and green is USUALLY ground .. but if you are trying to make 'inner' or 'outer' combinations humcancelling, you need to reverse the wiring AND the magnetic polarity ...

does the pickup that you flipped sound different all by itself? or only when combined? .. it shouldnt sound different all by itself unless it was damaged somehow ...

and you only flipped one pickup's magnet - not both, right?
and yes, bridge and neck pickups are usually opposed polarity orientation ... it is why the screw coil (red green) is always South polarity, no matter if it is on the 'top' (neck pickup) or the 'bottom' (bridge pickup) .. and the slug coil is always vice versa ...

this help?
t4d

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

if all you did was a magnet flip, and the results are as you describe, then it sounds like you did the flip right

problem is, you need to do more than the flip to get the results i diagramed .. you need to use the right switch (superswitch, not megaswitch) and you need to wire it like i showed, with the green and black from the flipped pickup wired 'unconventionally'

black is USUALLY hot and green is USUALLY ground .. but if you are trying to make 'inner' or 'outer' combinations humcancelling, you need to reverse the wiring AND the magnetic polarity ...

and yes, bridge and neck pickups are usually opposed polarity orientation ... it is why the screw coil (red green) is always South polarity, no matter if it is on the 'top' (neck pickup) or the 'bottom' (bridge pickup) .. and the slug coil is always vice versa ...

this help?
t4d

You guys are way over my head now! LOL....Time to let T4D take over.. :laugh2: :13:

 

[Mincer]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

ok, what i did today was in a different guitar that already has similar wiring, but it was humming on 2 & 4..I flipped the magnet on only 1 pickup (the CC)...it sounds fine on its own, terrible with the APH2 in any combination.
once again, thanks t4d, this does help, even if i am a little slow..it sounds like all i need is to reverse green & black and i would be in business...right?

 

[tone4days]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

ok, what i did today was in a different guitar that already has similar wiring, but it was humming on 2 & 4..I flipped the magnet on only 1 pickup (the CC)...it sounds fine on its own, terrible with the APH2 in any combination.
once again, thanks t4d, this does help, even if i am a little slow..it sounds like all i need is to reverse green & black and i would be in business...right?

ok good - makes sense that the pup sounded good by itself but not in combinations after the flip ...

now - the thing is, i cant guarantee that simply flipping green and black on the mag-flipped pup is gonna fix it because i do not know what the switch is ... or how it is wired to try to achieve the combinations ... let us know!

cheers
t4d

 

[Mincer]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

I am trying now, will report back...

 

[Mincer]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

no go....
the switch in the music man i am performing this experiment with is an odd one, i am guessing it came from music man themselves- it does allow for the switching in the diagram you drew, but doesn't look like the superswitch..and with the magnet in the stock orientation, there is a bit of hum (not much) in pos 4 & 2...flipping the magnet and switching black & green got me:
1 neck
2 neck, neck coil, bridge, neck coil
3 neck & bridge
4 neck, bridge coil, & bridge, bridge coil
5 bridge

all positions were in phase...just the coils i wanted were wrong

since i am not sure what kind of switch this is, it might just be better for me to put this back the way it was, since i like that sound the best...rather than just rewire over and over and hope i stumble upon it.

good news, is that the switch for my brian moore is indeed a superswitch, from stew-mac, so that diagra should work..
one guitar at a time, though...

 

[Mincer]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

btw, the scheatics that i found for this music man guitar are here:

 

[tone4days]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

ah, bummer ... those wiring results are almost exactly it ... if you leave the wiring that way, there is another thing you can do to get exactly what you want, but i have to risk that robert_s might disown me as a forum bro for even mentioning it ...

<whispers>you could rotate one of the pickups and put it in "upside down"

good luck with the brian moore and the superswitch ...

i am going to puzzle over the schamatic and the results you found to see if i can figure out how to use what you have to get what you want ... i think it is doable

let us know when you get the brian moore wired up to tell us how it went
cheers
t4d

 

[MattPete]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

<whispers>you could rotate one of the pickups and put it in "upside down"

I haven't thought about this deeply, so I could be wrong, but isn't the flipping-the-magnet trick and switching the wires what you want to do if you want to install the neck pickup with the poles towards the neck? Conversely, if you don't want to flip the magnet, you rotate the neck pickup so that the poles face the bridge and just switch the wires?

 

[tone4days]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

Conversely, if you don't want to flip the magnet, you rotate the neck pickup so that the poles face the bridge and just switch the wires?

yes, but careful ... my advice about rotating the pickup only applies in mincer's case with THAT switch giving THOSE switching option AFTER the flip and wire switch

t4d

 

[Mincer]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

this is actuallyt what brian moore does in a lot of their guitars- switch the pickup around...havent decided if i like the look of the logo upside down though....i'll prolly start the other project this week....

 

[tone4days]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

yeah, that's why robert_s shamed me into learning how to do it right

the duncans in my brian moore are all logo-less

t4d

 

[BlueGuitar]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

...flipping the magnet and switching black & green got me:
1 neck
2 neck, neck coil, bridge, neck coil
3 neck & bridge
4 neck, bridge coil, & bridge, bridge coil
5 bridge

all positions were in phase...just the coils i wanted were wrong

By "neck, neck coil" you mean the screw bobbin of the neck pickup? So do you want your guitar wired up so that you get inner coils and outer coils for positions 2 and 4?

Best bet is to first check the polarities on your two pickups... with T4D's scheme the two screw bobbins will be of opposite polarity as will the two slug bobbins. If you have a compass that will work great. If not you can use almost any magnet (even the ones in a single coil pickup!) to see which coils attract which end of the magnet...

--Good luck!

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

Would having the magnet in wrong make it hum like a bad ground? I replaced my ceramic with an alnico 5 and it hums. Not sure if I need to resolder the ground or if the magnet is in wrong?

 

[tone4days]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

yeah - if you have the wrong magnet orientation, it will cause hum ... in order to have hum cancelling when combining two coils, you have to have one of them be North and one of them be South ... if you combine two Norths or two Souths, they will hum ... and note: this doesnt address the issue of making sure you have the wind direction correct ...

that said, you might want to double check your grounds as well

you can always flip the mag and see if it helps

good luck
t4d

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Did the magnet flip...

It only hums when I palm mute or touch the pickup. It is a nickel covered pup.