Difference between different capacitor placement?

[Kyletrick13]

Hey everyone,

I’ve seen 2 different ways to solder caps on guitars now and I’m curious as to which way is better. There’s ways where the cap is soldered to one of the tone pot lugs and then to the back of the tone pot, and other ways have the capacitor running between the volume pot and the tone pot.

What’s the difference? Do any of the ways give a better sound or are a better option? I’ve got 2x .022 PIO K40Y-9 Russian capacitors going with linear and audio 500K CTS pots for a HH style guitar with 2 volumes and 2 tones.

What’s the best option? Check out the pictures to see what I mean.

Cheers,
Kyle.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

It makes no difference at all if the cap is before or after the pot. I usually put mine before the pot just because I think it looks nicer.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

Yes and no. Your photo on the left is 50's wiring. Notice the cap connecting from the tone pots outer lug (middle lug grounded to pot case) to the volume pots middle lug? If the cap was connected from the tone pots center lug (outer lug grounded to pot case) to the volume pots outer lug, it would be "modern" wiring. Then it would effectively be the same as your photo on the right (as best as I can see it anyway).

The Seymour Duncan diagrams show the cap grounded to the case the way yours is in the photo. That part of the equation (grounding cap to case versus from tone pot to volume pot) makes no difference.

 

[Kyletrick13]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

Yes and no. Your photo on the left is 50's wiring. Notice the cap connecting from the tone pots outer lug (middle lug grounded to pot case) to the volume pots middle lug? If the cap was connected from the tone pots center lug (outer lug grounded to pot case) to the volume pots outer lug, it would be "modern" wiring. Then it would effectively be the same as your photo on the right (as best as I can see it anyway).

The Seymour Duncan diagrams show the cap grounded to the case the way yours is in the photo. That part of the equation (grounding cap to case versus from tone pot to volume pot) makes no difference.

thanks that helps heaps!!! so is there much difference between 50's and modern style wiring in regards to the cap placement then?

 

[devastone]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

Actually the 2nd picture in the OP is kind of a hybrid, it shows a wire from the volume pot to the "left" post on the tone pot and the cap from the middle post to ground. But, they all do the same thing electrically, I haven't experimented to see if they sound different, theoretically they shouldn't but I'm sure there are those who say it makes a huge difference.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

The wiring on the tone pots is electrically identical. So it matters not how that part is done.

However the loading on the pickup is significantly different depending on what lug the tone circuit is soldered to on the vol pot. 50's LP wiring and its physical effect resides in this connection alone.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

Not to change the topic- But I hear on occasion the direction of the cap might affect things. Is there any possible truth to that?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

I'm not sure.......I've heard people say that, but the signal is A/C and the cap has no polarity. All electric theory and advice says that unless they are electrolytic then orientation doesn't matter.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

The main difference between modern wiring and 50's wiring is that 50's wiring preserves treble response as you roll down the volume pot. With modern wiring, the more you roll back the volume pot, the darker the tone becomes. With 50's wiring, the treble loss is much less, allowing you to roll down your volume and retain the basic tone. So, you can be on a single channel amp with volume sufficient to break the amp up, like AC/DC. Then, roll down the volume knob enough to get a fairly clean tone, yet with essentially the same treble as the full volume version. With modern wiring, the rolled back clean tone would be much darker.

I prefer 50's wiring and all my guitars are wired this way. You should try it for yourself to see if you like it. You only have to move the cap from the left volume lug to the center. If you like it, leave it. If you don't, move it back. Less than 5 minutes work.

I also feel it makes the tone pot more responsive, especially when the volume pot is lower than 10. You can get some great warm in between tones. If you never roll off your volume control, it makes no difference either way.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

The only problem I have with 50s wiring is if you have the tone anywhere below 10 and roll the volume back, the tone gets even darker than if you had modern wiring.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

Not to change the topic- But I hear on occasion the direction of the cap might affect things. Is there any possible truth to that?

Some manufacturers used to mark the end of the cap where the lead was attached to the outside foil. Orange Drops used to have one end marked but, supposedly, that marking did not indicate the outside foil. I have some vintage film and foils that are marked where the band does indicate outside foil. The outside foil was supposed to be connected to the lower impedance side of the circuit. The theory was that it could help prevent electrical coupling into the cap. Kind of acting like a shield. Aside from some "boutique" caps, I don't think anyone commonly marks the outer foil anymore. That may or may not tell you what you need to know about how much difference it makes. But I have read of "audiophiles" who use an O-scope to find out what end is connected to the outer foil so they can connect their caps accordingly.

In a standard tone control inside a guitar, the cap bleeds some of the signal to ground, so it's basically a bypass cap. If one wanted to follow the outside foil theory, the outer foil side of the cap would be connected to the ground end. That would be the tone pot, end. Either directly soldered to the pot case, as in the SD diagrams, or by connecting to the tone pot lug.

One could always experiment by reversing the caps to see if it makes any difference.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

The main difference between modern wiring and 50's wiring is that 50's wiring preserves treble response as you roll down the volume pot. With modern wiring, the more you roll back the volume pot, the darker the tone becomes. With 50's wiring, the treble loss is much less, allowing you to roll down your volume and retain the basic tone.

Or, you can use a treble bleed like the Kinman Mod and keep the high end and tone when the volume's rolled down. From what I've read, most players seem to prefer the richer, fuller tones of modern wiring.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

Yep, lots of guys use the treble bleed too. I'm a bit of a wiring dummy, so 50's style is just the simplest solution for me.

 

[SAguitar]

Re: Difference between different capacitor placement?

I have installed a treble bleed circuit on all of my guitars. When I turn down, I want the same tone, just quieter. Before I discovered the Kinman Mod, it used to drive me crazy when the tone would go dark as I backed off on the volume.