DIY Erlewine neck jig?

[Top-L]

I am presented with a neck that needs a little more accuracy than a flat level. Under tension, the relief is not as expected.

I've been watching the Erlewine vids, and it seems the primary value of it is being able to simulate string tension. All the other stuff is just bells and whistles. It has the gauges underneath the neck, but afaict, those are superfluous.

All you need is a way to simulate string tension and a straight edge to verify that the tension you've applied is making the neck straight. Those little dial gauges look cool, but the whole thing looks overbuilt.

All you need is a way to simulate string tension (a strap over headstock, and a straight edge to verify that the forces you are applying are doing the same thing as the strings would.

Opinions?

 

[ehdwuld]

maybe strings?

I am not sure what you have in mind

but the Erlewine Jig I remember was the neck resting on two blocks with a clamp in the center

 

[Top-L]

Nevermind...

 

[orpheo]

I am presented with a neck that needs a little more accuracy than a flat level. Under tension, the relief is not as expected.

I've been watching the Erlewine vids, and it seems the primary value of it is being able to simulate string tension. All the other stuff is just bells and whistles. It has the gauges underneath the neck, but afaict, those are superfluous.

All you need is a way to simulate string tension and a straight edge to verify that the tension you've applied is making the neck straight. Those little dial gauges look cool, but the whole thing looks overbuilt.

All you need is a way to simulate string tension (a strap over headstock, and a straight edge to verify that the forces you are applying are doing the same thing as the strings would.

Opinions?

The clocks are not superfluous. Just curious, but do you make guitars, at all?

The clocks are there to tell you the curve of the neck at various points, when the strings are on, under tension. So when you take off the tension, you know exactly what the neck curve was at various points, and then with the straps you pull the neck to the clocks and measuring points.

You don't want the neck to be straight as it is without strings; you want the neck to be straight under tension. This jig helps to get the neck straight in the end of the process.

 

[ICTGoober]

I've been using one of the old school Erlewine jigs which I purchased in the 80's at the same time I bought a StewMac bench.
Both have served me well.

 

[Top-L]

The clocks are not superfluous. Just curious, but do you make guitars, at all?

The clocks are there to tell you the curve of the neck at various points, when the strings are on, under tension. So when you take off the tension, you know exactly what the neck curve was at various points, and then with the straps you pull the neck to the clocks and measuring points.

You don't want the neck to be straight as it is without strings; you want the neck to be straight under tension. This jig helps to get the neck straight in the end of the process.

No, I just level my own guitars, ebay aquisitions, etc.

My point was that without the dial gauges, you can still simulate string tension and use a straight edge to determine if it is straight.

The procedure as I understand it is to set the neck level under string tension, remove the strings, then (instead of adjusting the truss rod) use the strap and headstock adjuster to make the neck straight again, before level.

Why do you need to dial gauges? A straight edge could tell you the same thing (although more difficult to visualize.)

I am currently testing my guitars to see the difference between "straight under string tension" vs "strings removed and made straight with truss". If the profile of each is different, that lends credence to the erlewine jig method.

The other potential issue with the erlewine is that the simulated string tension is not the same as actual strings. Bass side will get much more tension than treble side. Under tension, bass side usually has more relief. So I'm not sure that erlewine is best method if you consider side to side difference (which is the real challenge anyway.)

Regarding side to side difference, handling that is the final frontier. I can use the truss rod and bridge height to make any string on the neck play perfectly, the question is, are all the other strings perfect as well? I have had a breakthrough in my understanding and I don't believe that flat leveling or erlewine jig is optimal as neither addresses side to side differences.

 

[GuitarDoc]

The neck jig is an amazingly accurate jig for someone who makes a lot of high end guitars for sale. For an at home DIYer it not only isn't necessary, but it is very expensive. Besides, "string tension" varies considerably depending on what type, brand, and gauge of string you are using. Once you understand ALL of the intricacies of fret leveling, and become proficient at setting up and using the neck jig, this jig will be a much desired tool. But lacking any of those luthier skills, this jig will be a waste of your money (and time).

 

[Top-L]

The neck jig is an amazingly accurate jig for someone who makes a lot of high end guitars for sale. For an at home DIYer it not only isn't necessary, but it is very expensive. Besides, "string tension" varies considerably depending on what type, brand, and gauge of string you are using. Once you understand ALL of the intricacies of fret leveling, and become proficient at setting up and using the neck jig, this jig will be a much desired tool. But lacking any of those luthier skills, this jig will be a waste of your money (and time).

I can see how it may improve accuracy, but the realization was that someone could build their own jig fairly easily that doesn't have dial gauges, but instead uses a straight edge.

And I don't believe it solves the real issue as it doesn't address side-to-side differences.

I am getting good results with flat leveling but am always looking to improve. Your response feels like gate keeping.

 

[jeremy]

if you do a lot of refrets, i can see that being a very useful tool. if not, i agree its overkill and expensive.

by "side to side" issues, do you mean a twist in the neck?

 

[Top-L]

if you do a lot of refrets, i can see that being a very useful tool. if not, i agree its overkill and expensive.

by "side to side" issues, do you mean a twist in the neck?

I wouldn't necessarily refer to it as a twist, but yes, it could be viewed as such. Just different relief profiles on each side of the neck.


There are alot of guys putting videos on youtube and not only do they give conflicting advice, but some of them who do this for a living are giving obviously bad advice. (or they are protecting their secrets.)

Flat leveling can produce good to great results depending on the guitar. Uneless there is a major issue, truss rod and action adjustments (or band aids like fall off) can be used to give excellent playability.

I am developing an understanding of what it takes to make fretwork next level without resorting to a plek machine. Its not clear that "flat leveling with simulated string tension" (per erlewine jig) is really solving the main source of imperfect results.

Because the bass side strings actually require more relief than treble side strings. And "flat leveling under simulated tension" still does not comprehend what the truss rod does when relief is added. (And this is also true of plek jobs.) This is why any form of flat leveling has limitations.

 

[jeremy]

bass side strings need more relief? not sure im following you there

 

[Top-L]

bass side strings need more relief? not sure im following you there

If a neck is completely flat with low action, the treble strings oscillation is smaller than bass strings.

On the bass side, you can/must raise the action higher to allow the string to vibrate. But by adding relief instead, you can accomodate the oscillation of the string, while keeping the action lower/consistent in the upper registers. (A shorter bass string does not have same degree of oscillation, so it doesnt need high action in the upper registers)

So a "perfect" neck profile would be flat on the treble side, and have some relief built into the bass side.

On a normal flat guitar neck, if you have to add relief (using truss) to accomodate the bass side strings, then you end up getting less than ideal action/tone on the treble side strings. (I mean its usually not a big deal, you can make some compromises and be perfectly fine.)

I think this is where plek can obviously solve the problem, but I am developing a way to meausure and perform something similar with hand tools. I don't think the Erlewine jig really solves the main issue that plek does.

 

[blakejcan]

But that’s why the nut is higher on the bass side?

 

[ehdwuld]

But that’s why the nut is higher on the bass side?

and the bridge is adjusted slightly as well

I think the OP may be overthinking a bit

 

[Top-L]

and the bridge is adjusted slightly as well

I think the OP may be overthinking a bit

I agree that if you don't encounter an edge case, you don't have to think about it much.

 

[GuitarDoc]

I can see how it may improve accuracy, but the realization was that someone could build their own jig fairly easily that doesn't have dial gauges, but instead uses a straight edge.

Of course you could build your own, but would it be stiff enough? Would it be secure enough? Would it be accurate?
Yes, you could use a straight edge and in most cases that would be accurate enough. If you're needing to reproduce the exact same results over and over again, then just sighting down a straight edge isn't going to cut it. The dials are there to give you a result that you can write down for your records so you can have exact repeatability. Sometimes customers want to know exactly what their relief is...it's not good enough to say, "oh, it's a little more than a smidgeon".

And I don't believe it solves the real issue as it doesn't address side-to-side differences.

No, but your nut and bridge can be adjusted to take care of that.

I am getting good results with flat leveling but am always looking to improve.

If you get good results with flat leveling, then keep up the good work. If you want to improve to the next level, then by all means buy a neck jig.

Your response feels like gate keeping.

"Gate keeping"?!
Just trying to give you some practical, useful info. And perhaps save you $500. If you've got the money to burn, then ignore all of my advice and go ahead and burn it.

 

[Top-L]

If you get good results with flat leveling, then keep up the good work. If you want to improve to the next level, then by all means buy a neck jig.




"Gate keeping"?!
Just trying to give you some practical, useful info. And perhaps save you $500. If you've got the money to burn, then ignore all of my advice and go ahead and burn it.

I think I will have to get the neck jig, or at least a set of under string leveling beams. (The problem with those is that the nut is still in place.)

I realized that its pretty easy to test if a tension jig is necessary or would help.

I flat leveled a guitar last week that had some weirdness on the bass strings prior to the level. After the flat level, the treble side was excellent, but still had some weirdness on the bass side.

So under string tension, I used truss rod to set it completely flat (as flat as possible), and there is quite a bit of undulation when set as flat as possible. Even after the flat level. There is a mild rise between frets 5-10 on bass side that required I add in more relief, and compromised the action.

I leveled it flat, but under tension and with it set as straight as possible, the weirdness comes back.

I haven't encountered this before in a measurable way, but this guitar needs it. In retrospect it will probably improve the result on all my guitars.

If I live another 20+ years then I suppose its not a bad thing to have. Or I may just build my own.

Can get the jig for the price of a couple Plek jobs.