Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

[dazco]

....to fenders with single coils? I ask because while i love my Jr special and pickuops to death at home, at stage volume the fenders sound far wider and the P90's have so much mid focus they sound smaller or narrower (hard to describe since we all read tone descriptions differently) compared to my strat and teles. Hopefully narrow is a clear description, but that how i hear it. The strat just fills the room with sound unlike the gibson. The thing is, i suppose some aftermarket P90's might sound less mid focused but i don't know that that will give the guitar a bigger sound or whether it's just the nature of a set neck 24.75 mahogany guitar. I tend to play my gibson at home and have no issues at home volumes at all, but when playing in a band context at stage volume i just gravitate to the fenders and don't want to use the Jr because of this.

I'd like to change that, but im asking because as a lifetime fender guy i know those intimately but i've rarely used or owned gibsons and never P90 ones till i got this 3 years ago. So i'm a newb at gibson modding aside from trying a set of harmonic designs in it when i 1st got it and a aluminum stop bar with steel studs, all of which seemed to degrade the tone rather than help it. Anyone else noticed the same thing and successfully found a way around it ?

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

(Interesting you posted this thread within minutes of my P90 thread... )

I wouldn't call the P90 tone narrow, more like "focused", but as a Fender Strat and Tele fan, I know what you mean. Awesome for leads that cut though, swampy slide guitar, and in a 2 guitar band as a compliment to either a Fender style guitar or a HB loaded Gibson.

What amp are you using the P90 guitar with? The mid hump of the P90 seems to match with the mid scoop of a Fender style amp, especially once it gets into overdrive territory.

 

[dazco]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

(Interesting you posted this thread within minutes of my P90 thread... )

I wouldn't call the P90 tone narrow, more like "focused", but as a Fender Strat and Tele fan, I know what you mean. Awesome for leads that cut though, swampy slide guitar, and in a 2 guitar band as a compliment to either a Fender style guitar or a HB loaded Gibson.

What amp are you using the P90 guitar with? The mid hump of the P90 seems to match with the mid scoop of a Fender style amp, especially once it gets into overdrive territory.

A modeler thats got many sounds from fender to marshal and all very good, this from a 40 year tube snob so trust me, it ain't the amp. Besides, they amp sounds plenty big with fenders. I guess my question really is whether it;s the mahogany set neck gib scale or whether it can be changed via pickups. Truly changed....last thing i need just having been laid off is to spend $ on pickups that don't do what i need.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

What string gauges do you use on Fenders and Gibsons, respectively?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

when playing in a band context at stage volume i just gravitate to the fenders and don't want to use the Jr

That's not a bad thing. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

I love the p90 sound especially thru a tweed amp and at low volume ala grant green. However, no axes can do all things for all people in all contexts. Play the axes you enjoy and get your diversity of sounds, tones and phrasing by the way you play. If it is the fender axes that let you do that best, then just keep doing it.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

P90s always sounded 'narrow' to me compared to Fenders or HBs. They are good for certain types of music, and certain instrumentation. I don't like them as the only guitar in the band, or in a trio setting.

 

[dazco]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

P90s always sounded 'narrow' to me compared to Fenders or HBs. They are good for certain types of music, and certain instrumentation. I don't like them as the only guitar in the band, or in a trio setting.

And it IS a trio setting. Maybe i just have to relegate it to a hone guitar. Or maybe a pair of P90 size HB's ?

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

I don't hear it in general. But then, my ideal tones pretty much hail from distorted p90s. I think they really require a different approach to a strat. To me they do sound bigger, but realize I use a lot of gain, and some of my favorite tones are from Social Distortion, so I tend to gravitate towards p90s. Now, I did have some lollar p90s that sounded thin and polite to me. IME, a Wolfetone meaner/mean set fits the bill nicely for a nice growl from the bridge particularly that sounds huge.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

It's not too often that I hear a P-90 that sounds "smaller" than a Strat pup, so your complaint throws me for a loop.

But before you spend money on new pups, have you thought about changing mags in your p-90s?

Your P-90s have 2 x A5 mags in each. Changing those to A8 mags will make a world of difference, making the P-90 much beefier/bigger sounding and a bit more output as well. That should make your P-90's demolish you Strat.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

Interesting question...I could see them as being narrow compared to Strat/Tele single coils BUT as mentioned you can swap the mags out in them and that can make a huge difference.

Personally, I've never played a P90 in the bridge that I liked...prefer them in the neck position.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

I don't know if 'smaller' is the right word. They do tend to disappear a little more than a traditional single coil or humbucker. They don't quite have the cut of a single, nor the power of a humbucker. I tend to like them with other guitars better (as another voice) rather than stand-alone. I agree, I like the neck P90s better.

 

[swissmountain]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

Yes - in the sense that a P90 in the bridge position does not have the balls in the low end that I like. This very thing though makes me like them in the neck position because they are less muddy there compared to a full size neck humbucker. That is also why I think bridge humbucker and neck P90 is a great combination.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

Yes - in the sense that a P90 in the bridge position does not have the balls in the low end that I like. This very thing though makes me like them in the neck position because they are less muddy there compared to a full size neck humbucker. That is also why I think bridge humbucker and neck P90 is a great combination.

Yes, a HB bridge and P-90 neck is a great combination, should be in a lot more factory guitars

But you can easily beef up a P-90 bridge and give it the muscle you want. To me, a P-90 bridge with the usual A5 magnets is pretty bright and thin. So a few years ago I experimented with different magnets. I tried a variety of combinations, and one of my favorites is an A8/A4 pair (no rule that says the two magnets in a P-90 both have to be the same kind). That gives me nice full, warm tones from the bridge. Magnets are several dollars each and you can swap them in minutes.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

+1
Like I said earlier, one or two A8's will give it the balls that you need for the bridge.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

+1
Like I said earlier, one or two A8's will give it the balls that you need for the bridge.

Balls and low end.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

....I ask because while i love my Jr special and pickuops to death at home, at stage volume the fenders sound far wider and the P90's have so much mid focus they sound smaller or narrower
...
The strat just fills the room with sound unlike the gibson.

IME Fenders have thumpy bass to them and brite top end which gives me the impression of a scooped-mid sound, while Gibson's (whether P90 or Humbucking) sound fairly flat on the bass and treble with a mid-bump to the sound. My way around it is adjusting the amp eq to compensate, but knowing that you will never make a Fender and Gibson sound the same, but you can get the frequencies balanced enough that your playing will sit in the same spot in the band mix.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

P-90s don't inherently sound thin, and a stock "vintage output" P90 with A5 mags can sound MASSIVE without any modifications: see Tony Iommi and Leslie West. A thin sound has more to do with the player and the amp, not the pickup's magnet or wind type. With P90s, the rhythm pickup is great for - you guessed it - rhythm, and the lead pickup cuts through for - guess again - leads. Play with pickup height to get the right sound, or roll off the tone control to get a darker/thicker midrange. IMO, a thin sounding P90 is user error.

 

[swissmountain]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

I fully agree with your opinion that the P90 rhythm pickup is great for rhythm, and it is because it is not muddy due to having less low end than a full size humbucker.

But I never said a P90 in the bridge sounded "thin" - "thin" to me means lack of bass and midrange. Most P90s I played had enough midrange, so thin they weren't. It was just that tiny amount of bottom end that gives me the feel I want that was not there. I can compensate that with the amp's tone controls to some extent but not entirely. And rolling off the tone does not help to increase the low end at all - it just takes away the top end which was fine to begin with.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

My experience with P90's is not the same. I've had a few guitars with them, 2 Gibsons and have a SG that I built with a Lollar. The sound very full to me, fatter than a Strat pickup. I almost want to put them in between the a Tele bridge pickup and a Humbucker, with their girth and snarl of a Tele bridge but the fattness of a Humbucker. One thing I did discover when I had a Gibson SG Classic was the 300k volume pots choked them off a bit. I left the tone pots stock (300k linear) but swapped the volume pots for 500K. Made a big difference. That guitar could keep up in a band setting no problem, whether it was just me playing or both us guitarists. With my SG Jr, same thing. I started off with 500k volume and 500k tone per recommendations but eventually changed the tone to 250k which shaved off just enough highs to fatten it up a little more.

A naturally great sounding Strat at the core (the wood) will sound great no matter what you put in it, IME (I've got one), so I could see where you're coming from too. When I put Texas Specials in my Frankenstrat, it still sounded great and it had Humbuckers in it for years. It has Humbuckers again because I prefer them.

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

I fully agree with your opinion that the P90 rhythm pickup is great for rhythm, and it is because it is not muddy due to having less low end than a full size humbucker.

But I never said a P90 in the bridge sounded "thin" - "thin" to me means lack of bass and midrange. Most P90s I played had enough midrange, so thin they weren't. It was just that tiny amount of bottom end that gives me the feel I want that was not there. I can compensate that with the amp's tone controls to some extent but not entirely. And rolling off the tone does not help to increase the low end at all - it just takes away the top end which was fine to begin with.

my p90s have vast amounts of bass.
I'm going to throw out there, that with p90s, a good vintage wind one sounds massive. It is counter-intuitive, but IME lower wind ones sound bigger and "hotter." The high wind ones I have tried have come off mellow.