SlappyTappy
New member
Would a 500k vol/250k tone setup sound or react differently than a 250k vol/500k tone setup?
Does the "order" of pots matter?
- Thread starter SlappyTappy
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SlappyTappy
New member
Re: Does the "order" of pots matter?
So for example, comparing vintage Gibson LP Jr wiring (500v/250t) to modern (300v/500t), the vintage will be brighter? Does a higher value tone pot have a different taper to the high end roll off?
Dimarzio today recommends trying 250v/1meg tone. What would be the benefit of such a high value on the tone pot?
So for example, comparing vintage Gibson LP Jr wiring (500v/250t) to modern (300v/500t), the vintage will be brighter? Does a higher value tone pot have a different taper to the high end roll off?
Dimarzio today recommends trying 250v/1meg tone. What would be the benefit of such a high value on the tone pot?
Re: Does the "order" of pots matter?
Having the different value does two things. On the volume pot (the only one the signal actually passes through) it will affect the tone of the guitar irrespective of its position. The tone pot is essentially a tuned low pass filter. The tone pot value I believe works with the cap value to determine the range of the low pass and how it rolls off. I believe higher resistance will be brighter initially.
Having the different value does two things. On the volume pot (the only one the signal actually passes through) it will affect the tone of the guitar irrespective of its position. The tone pot is essentially a tuned low pass filter. The tone pot value I believe works with the cap value to determine the range of the low pass and how it rolls off. I believe higher resistance will be brighter initially.
SlappyTappy
New member
Re: Does the "order" of pots matter?
So essentially, a volume pot sets the basic parameters. Then a tone pot limits the amount of high end available, the higher values getting closer to the full potential of the volume pot, but never quite 100% as going without a tone pot.
The tone pot value sets how close to "full on" the volume pot is, and the tone cap determines how much low pass roll-off there is.
Am I close?
So essentially, a volume pot sets the basic parameters. Then a tone pot limits the amount of high end available, the higher values getting closer to the full potential of the volume pot, but never quite 100% as going without a tone pot.
The tone pot value sets how close to "full on" the volume pot is, and the tone cap determines how much low pass roll-off there is.
Am I close?
Re: Does the "order" of pots matter?
Tone pot does nothing to the vol pot's output or operation.
Many would say that with the tone full up the tone circuit is out of the equation, but there is some 'drag' of those components....have no tone circuit and you'll see what I mean - slightly crisper. The tone pot and cap are combined in determining the way the tone rolls off.
Tone pot does nothing to the vol pot's output or operation.
Many would say that with the tone full up the tone circuit is out of the equation, but there is some 'drag' of those components....have no tone circuit and you'll see what I mean - slightly crisper. The tone pot and cap are combined in determining the way the tone rolls off.
SlappyTappy
New member
Re: Does the "order" of pots matter?
You seem to contradict yourself here? You say it does nothing to the volume pot's output or operation and proceed to explain how with no tone pot in the circuit the resulting sound is more open and crisp. The latter notion has been my experience. I'm just trying to figure out what different tone pot values actually DO, IE 1meg tone pot compared to a 250k.
You seem to contradict yourself here? You say it does nothing to the volume pot's output or operation and proceed to explain how with no tone pot in the circuit the resulting sound is more open and crisp. The latter notion has been my experience. I'm just trying to figure out what different tone pot values actually DO, IE 1meg tone pot compared to a 250k.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Does the "order" of pots matter?
They define the height of the resonant peak.
See the Fig. 14 here: http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/
And +1 about what jeremy said (500k vol + 250k tone brighter than 250k vol + 500k tone). It's my experience too.
Last but not least: my last guitar with DiMarzio's has a 500k vol and a no load tone pot. The sound was too round and muffled with lower values.
FWIW.
They define the height of the resonant peak.
See the Fig. 14 here: http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/
And +1 about what jeremy said (500k vol + 250k tone brighter than 250k vol + 500k tone). It's my experience too.
Last but not least: my last guitar with DiMarzio's has a 500k vol and a no load tone pot. The sound was too round and muffled with lower values.
FWIW.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Does the "order" of pots matter?
A tone pot is fairly easy to understand. It's simply a resistor, in series, with a cap. A variable resistor, to be exact. A capacitor passes high frequencies, and blocks low frequencies. The crossover point is determined by the value of the cap. A .047uf cap will allow lower frequencies to pass than a .022uf. A .001uf will be even less. But, in the case of a tone cap, we're passing those frequencies to ground. Ie., throwing them away. The resistor simply determines how much of those frequencies are we tossing. Since a tone pot is wired as a variable resistor, (rheostat), a 1meg can be dialed down to 500k, and a 500k can be dialed down to 250k. On the other hand, a 250k can never be dialed "up" to 500k. I've found that there's not much need to exceed 500k. (YMMV)
So, if your experimenting, start with a 1M or 500k. If you don't notice much difference in the first portion of the turn, then drop to the next lower value. 500k is always a good foundation. You can can always dial it down.
Make sense?
A tone pot is fairly easy to understand. It's simply a resistor, in series, with a cap. A variable resistor, to be exact. A capacitor passes high frequencies, and blocks low frequencies. The crossover point is determined by the value of the cap. A .047uf cap will allow lower frequencies to pass than a .022uf. A .001uf will be even less. But, in the case of a tone cap, we're passing those frequencies to ground. Ie., throwing them away. The resistor simply determines how much of those frequencies are we tossing. Since a tone pot is wired as a variable resistor, (rheostat), a 1meg can be dialed down to 500k, and a 500k can be dialed down to 250k. On the other hand, a 250k can never be dialed "up" to 500k. I've found that there's not much need to exceed 500k. (YMMV)
So, if your experimenting, start with a 1M or 500k. If you don't notice much difference in the first portion of the turn, then drop to the next lower value. 500k is always a good foundation. You can can always dial it down.
Make sense?
Re: Does the "order" of pots matter?
The tone will be affected with no tone circuit. The volume pot will operate exactly the same way. You won't get more overall volume by having no tone circuit in play (the volume pot's resistance remains unchanged), nor will you have a different taper by having no circuit in play.
The tone will be affected with no tone circuit. The volume pot will operate exactly the same way. You won't get more overall volume by having no tone circuit in play (the volume pot's resistance remains unchanged), nor will you have a different taper by having no circuit in play.