Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
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Masta' C
Well-known member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Depends on the specific covers you're using, but most covers tame the high end presence ever so slightly. It's more noticeable on some pickups than others, but uncovered pickups tend to have a little more bite/brightness. If a pickup is a little "harsh" sounding, sometimes covers can help.
Depends on the specific covers you're using, but most covers tame the high end presence ever so slightly. It's more noticeable on some pickups than others, but uncovered pickups tend to have a little more bite/brightness. If a pickup is a little "harsh" sounding, sometimes covers can help.
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Search for the Bareknuckle youtube vid on covered vs not. That is about the minimum difference there is save if you buy Throbak covers. Gold will roll the treble off a bit more due to the extra layer needed for that material to stick.
Search for the Bareknuckle youtube vid on covered vs not. That is about the minimum difference there is save if you buy Throbak covers. Gold will roll the treble off a bit more due to the extra layer needed for that material to stick.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Absolutely makes a difference although how big a difference depends on the player's experience level, sensitivity, playing style and how much that player is looking for a specific sound.
There is a difference but not everyone picks up on it.
I think the cleaner you play the more you'll notice it.
Traditional jazz and blues players tend to appreciate the warmth and sweeter tone that a covered pickup has. BB King, George Benson, etc.
I have covered humbuckers in all of my humbucker guitars.
When I was younger and played more rock I liked them uncovered.
These days I play with a cleaner tone and prefer them covered.
Absolutely makes a difference although how big a difference depends on the player's experience level, sensitivity, playing style and how much that player is looking for a specific sound.
There is a difference but not everyone picks up on it.
I think the cleaner you play the more you'll notice it.
Traditional jazz and blues players tend to appreciate the warmth and sweeter tone that a covered pickup has. BB King, George Benson, etc.
I have covered humbuckers in all of my humbucker guitars.
When I was younger and played more rock I liked them uncovered.
These days I play with a cleaner tone and prefer them covered.
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eclecticsynergy
Well-known member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Good quality covers can subtly tame a bit of the high treble. Cheap covers can dull the tone quite noticeably. Get good ones.
Good quality covers can subtly tame a bit of the high treble. Cheap covers can dull the tone quite noticeably. Get good ones.
Benthedemon007
New member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
The answer is: next to none. I guarantee that nobody will hear the difference live. Get the gold covers because they look cool, but they won't effect tone that much.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The answer is: next to none. I guarantee that nobody will hear the difference live. Get the gold covers because they look cool, but they won't effect tone that much.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
The least they do is dampen the amplitude of the resonance peak a bit, via eddy currents. It isn't a big difference.
There are some things you can do to lift the amplitude of the resonance peak, namely put a 500kOhm volume pot instead of 250 or 300. (if you already have 500 you might want to try 1 MOhm but that isn't quite as effective) So if you really don't like the outcome you can correct it a bit.
Personally I am a believer in a big influence from mechanical effects, and the covers certain qualify because of possible dampening, possible reflection, directly hitting the cover etc. That is very hard to measure and more of a conviction thing. I think that covers done correctly (tight but not dampened with some flexible material) are enriching the sound.
The least they do is dampen the amplitude of the resonance peak a bit, via eddy currents. It isn't a big difference.
There are some things you can do to lift the amplitude of the resonance peak, namely put a 500kOhm volume pot instead of 250 or 300. (if you already have 500 you might want to try 1 MOhm but that isn't quite as effective) So if you really don't like the outcome you can correct it a bit.
Personally I am a believer in a big influence from mechanical effects, and the covers certain qualify because of possible dampening, possible reflection, directly hitting the cover etc. That is very hard to measure and more of a conviction thing. I think that covers done correctly (tight but not dampened with some flexible material) are enriching the sound.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
You're wrong.
The one who will hear the difference is the player.
And the player is the most important person there is.
Without him or her, there is no music for the nobodys to hear.
But I do agree that you, probably, would hear no difference.
Sorry. That's unfortunate.
Maybe in your next life.
You're wrong.
The one who will hear the difference is the player.
And the player is the most important person there is.
Without him or her, there is no music for the nobodys to hear.
But I do agree that you, probably, would hear no difference.
Sorry. That's unfortunate.
Maybe in your next life.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Well technically that would make you both right, assuming Ben means the audience.
But for clarification purposes the eddy currents aren't necessarily attacking the resonant peak, the way resistive loading does. What they're doing is slowing and compressing (most noticeably) the high frequency response, and it's not really related to the resonant peak. In other words it's going to soften highs regardless of where the peak is.
And part of the reason some players don't hear the difference between covered and uncovered, is because eddy currents are velocity dependent. So a player that hits hard and/or plays with a lot of dynamics might be more likely to feel the difference than a player with a softer more uniform technique.
If you watch this video, you can see how the more the velocity increases, the more currents develop, especially the parts where he's pushing the magnet into the pipe.
Well technically that would make you both right, assuming Ben means the audience.
I agree you can take steps to "brighten" the guitar by raising the load, shortening the guitar cable capacitance, etc.
But for clarification purposes the eddy currents aren't necessarily attacking the resonant peak, the way resistive loading does. What they're doing is slowing and compressing (most noticeably) the high frequency response, and it's not really related to the resonant peak. In other words it's going to soften highs regardless of where the peak is.
And part of the reason some players don't hear the difference between covered and uncovered, is because eddy currents are velocity dependent. So a player that hits hard and/or plays with a lot of dynamics might be more likely to feel the difference than a player with a softer more uniform technique.
If you watch this video, you can see how the more the velocity increases, the more currents develop, especially the parts where he's pushing the magnet into the pipe.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Why do you think the eddy currents are not directly proportional to the regular signal induced? If they are/were, then it would be a constant dampening over the entire range of playing dynamic (not a variable one which would be compression as you say).
Not doubting, just asking. It is an interesting question.
Why do you think the eddy currents are not directly proportional to the regular signal induced? If they are/were, then it would be a constant dampening over the entire range of playing dynamic (not a variable one which would be compression as you say).
Not doubting, just asking. It is an interesting question.
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Eddy currents are created in the presence of a changing magnetic field. Higher frequency means more rapid change of the magnetic field, therefore eddy currents increase with frequency, which is why they're associated with losses in treble response.
An eddy current is a magnetic field that is temporarily created by a changing magnetic field through a conductive metal, that is directly opposite of the magnetic field that creates it, thereby causing a net cancellation of the magnetic field. Pickups work on the principle of a changing magnetic field through the pickup's coil inducing a voltage, so when you have eddy currents cancelling out that magnetic change, you end up with less output voltage, more specifically, less output voltage as the frequency becomes greater.
In the pipe example, it's not specifically the velocity itself that causes the eddy current, rather the rate of change. The copper pipe goes from having no moving electrons to suddenly having rapidly moving electrons. The sudden change produces the magnetic field that resists the falling magnet. A high velocity is just one way that sudden change can happen. Another is a rapidly changing magnetic field induced by a higher frequency AC current.
An interesting thing about eddy current losses with respect to pickups is that they causes losses in two ways: they create magnetic fields that oppose the changing magnetic field of the moving string, causing a direct net loss in magnetic change through the coil, but then the coil itself produces it's own magnetic field as current passes through the windings, and eddy currents oppose that secondary magnetic field as well. If the metal causing the eddy currents is directly between the strings and the pickup, such as the case of a metal cover, most of the losses will be associated with cancellation of the string's magnetic field. But if the metal is farther from the strings, but still close to the coil, such as around the sides or underneath the coil(s), they will primarily oppose that secondary magnetic field generated by the pickup's coil. In general, those secondary losses associated with the coil are not as great, which is why you can have a highly conductive steel base plate, but ideally use something like thin Nickel Silver for the cover that goes over the top of the pickup.
Eddy currents are created in the presence of a changing magnetic field. Higher frequency means more rapid change of the magnetic field, therefore eddy currents increase with frequency, which is why they're associated with losses in treble response.
An eddy current is a magnetic field that is temporarily created by a changing magnetic field through a conductive metal, that is directly opposite of the magnetic field that creates it, thereby causing a net cancellation of the magnetic field. Pickups work on the principle of a changing magnetic field through the pickup's coil inducing a voltage, so when you have eddy currents cancelling out that magnetic change, you end up with less output voltage, more specifically, less output voltage as the frequency becomes greater.
In the pipe example, it's not specifically the velocity itself that causes the eddy current, rather the rate of change. The copper pipe goes from having no moving electrons to suddenly having rapidly moving electrons. The sudden change produces the magnetic field that resists the falling magnet. A high velocity is just one way that sudden change can happen. Another is a rapidly changing magnetic field induced by a higher frequency AC current.
An interesting thing about eddy current losses with respect to pickups is that they causes losses in two ways: they create magnetic fields that oppose the changing magnetic field of the moving string, causing a direct net loss in magnetic change through the coil, but then the coil itself produces it's own magnetic field as current passes through the windings, and eddy currents oppose that secondary magnetic field as well. If the metal causing the eddy currents is directly between the strings and the pickup, such as the case of a metal cover, most of the losses will be associated with cancellation of the string's magnetic field. But if the metal is farther from the strings, but still close to the coil, such as around the sides or underneath the coil(s), they will primarily oppose that secondary magnetic field generated by the pickup's coil. In general, those secondary losses associated with the coil are not as great, which is why you can have a highly conductive steel base plate, but ideally use something like thin Nickel Silver for the cover that goes over the top of the pickup.
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LtKojak
New member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
I have five guitars with covers, three semi-hollow, one full-hollow and a LP, two A3/A2, one UOA5/UOA5, one A4/A4 and one A4/A8, two of them with golden hardware, and none of them lack any treble or articulation, most of the time I roll-off the tone control between 4 and 5 to get the tone I like.
The amp is a boutique blackface with bass in 2.5, mid in 7.5 and treble in 5; the speaker is a G12-65.
All covers are from mojotone.com. That's the gold one I use:
http://www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/PickupParts_x/Humbucker-Pickup-Cover-Gold-49-2mm
HTH,
I have five guitars with covers, three semi-hollow, one full-hollow and a LP, two A3/A2, one UOA5/UOA5, one A4/A4 and one A4/A8, two of them with golden hardware, and none of them lack any treble or articulation, most of the time I roll-off the tone control between 4 and 5 to get the tone I like.
The amp is a boutique blackface with bass in 2.5, mid in 7.5 and treble in 5; the speaker is a G12-65.
All covers are from mojotone.com. That's the gold one I use:
http://www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/PickupParts_x/Humbucker-Pickup-Cover-Gold-49-2mm
HTH,
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Lewguitar
New member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
All of my humbucker guitars have pickups with covers and all have plenty of highs.
That doesn't mean that covers don't reduce highs a bit.
It's like turning down the prescence control on a Marshall amp.
The tone still has plenty of highs...just less sizzle.
And I think Frank is right in that it does depend on your picking style or the velocity of your picking.
Those who really make the effort to vary our picking technique, adjust the angle of the pick, play with the tip sometimes and the side sometimes and play with a variety of techniques and who like to squeeze the notes out and do the pinch harmonic thing occasionally are reaching for sounds we hear inside and need to express.
I think we're a little more sensitive than those who insist that what we're hearing, they do not hear.
And I'm sure they don't hear what we hear - because they don't play like we do.
All of my humbucker guitars have pickups with covers and all have plenty of highs.
That doesn't mean that covers don't reduce highs a bit.
It's like turning down the prescence control on a Marshall amp.
The tone still has plenty of highs...just less sizzle.
And I think Frank is right in that it does depend on your picking style or the velocity of your picking.
Those who really make the effort to vary our picking technique, adjust the angle of the pick, play with the tip sometimes and the side sometimes and play with a variety of techniques and who like to squeeze the notes out and do the pinch harmonic thing occasionally are reaching for sounds we hear inside and need to express.
I think we're a little more sensitive than those who insist that what we're hearing, they do not hear.
And I'm sure they don't hear what we hear - because they don't play like we do.
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Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
I guess its all a matter of degree. You get the same range of picking dynamics, just with the cover on it gets shifted slightly......or there is a slightly less crisp edge to it. Your dynamics are unchanged essentially.
And once you have the cover on....or off, you will tend to change your playing style a bit - all unconsciously as you play around with getting the various nuances you want.
And of course pickup height and setup etc changes with the cover present or not to suit what you want to hear. So its not like you're taking the cover on and off between songs.
I guess its all a matter of degree. You get the same range of picking dynamics, just with the cover on it gets shifted slightly......or there is a slightly less crisp edge to it. Your dynamics are unchanged essentially.
And once you have the cover on....or off, you will tend to change your playing style a bit - all unconsciously as you play around with getting the various nuances you want.
And of course pickup height and setup etc changes with the cover present or not to suit what you want to hear. So its not like you're taking the cover on and off between songs.
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Its all to do with the layers they have to use to make the outermost layer stick. Plus of course the thickness of the base material. The best covers use less layers, but the materials they use are either more expensive to use, or more cumbersome to prepare. Cheap covers just bang on the layers to get the final product.
Its all to do with the layers they have to use to make the outermost layer stick. Plus of course the thickness of the base material. The best covers use less layers, but the materials they use are either more expensive to use, or more cumbersome to prepare. Cheap covers just bang on the layers to get the final product.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
Yeah, different materials induce more or less eddy currents. Nickel silver is less than brass for example.
The cover material and it's thickness is the biggest contributor. Plating is a smaller percentage of the total thickness so it's a fraction of a fraction. But that said, if you have a really thick copper layer under the chrome or gold plating, that can make a difference. Most plated covers are plated with a base metal, then the top metal. But there are some companies using stainless covers, and then for gold using titanium nitride for example.
Yeah, different materials induce more or less eddy currents. Nickel silver is less than brass for example.
The cover material and it's thickness is the biggest contributor. Plating is a smaller percentage of the total thickness so it's a fraction of a fraction. But that said, if you have a really thick copper layer under the chrome or gold plating, that can make a difference. Most plated covers are plated with a base metal, then the top metal. But there are some companies using stainless covers, and then for gold using titanium nitride for example.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
The reason that some builders are offering "raw", unplated covers on humbuckers.
The Tom Holmes set I just sold came that way.
My Custom Shop Pearly Gates set I replaced them with appear to be that way too.
The covers look dull and unfinished but the pickups sure sounds great!
If knowledgable builders like Mj and Seymour and Tom Holmes are going through the effort to provide "raw" covers like that, there must be something to it.
The reason that some builders are offering "raw", unplated covers on humbuckers.
The Tom Holmes set I just sold came that way.
My Custom Shop Pearly Gates set I replaced them with appear to be that way too.
The covers look dull and unfinished but the pickups sure sounds great!
If knowledgable builders like Mj and Seymour and Tom Holmes are going through the effort to provide "raw" covers like that, there must be something to it.
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frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
In essence we agree aside from it sounds like you're saying that the current develops only if the speed is changing. And that's not the case in the tube drop for example. If you travel at a brisk enough speed and continue at that exact same, fixed speed, the currents develop and continue to be developed. It's not only a change in speed. It sounds like you're suggesting if the acceleration was slowed down, the currents would not develop even when the magnet reached the faster speed. Maybe that's not what you meant.
In essence we agree aside from it sounds like you're saying that the current develops only if the speed is changing. And that's not the case in the tube drop for example. If you travel at a brisk enough speed and continue at that exact same, fixed speed, the currents develop and continue to be developed. It's not only a change in speed. It sounds like you're suggesting if the acceleration was slowed down, the currents would not develop even when the magnet reached the faster speed. Maybe that's not what you meant.
darthphineas
New member
Re: Does the pickup covers (Nickel, Gold) Effect sound?
This
Or, in other words, nothing that can't be dialed out with a few slight tweaks of those knobs and buttons on the front of the amp.
This
Or, in other words, nothing that can't be dialed out with a few slight tweaks of those knobs and buttons on the front of the amp.
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