Does turning an unbalanced humbucker upside down affect the tone?
- Thread starter avereste
- Start date
Artie
Peaveyologist
In any "normal" twin-humbucker guitar, the neck is rotated 180 deg's from the bridge. It doesn't affect the sound. But in your example, it might. Each point of a string has a slightly different node of vibration. It's what makes a Strat middle sound different than a Strat neck, even if they're the same pickup. On a 'bucker, with significant winding variance, you might be able to hear a difference. It would be subtle.
This is the kind of thing you'd need to try, then tell us.
This is the kind of thing you'd need to try, then tell us.
freefrog
Well-known member
There's already a difference in Gibson humbuckers because even if both coils are identical, having slugs or screw poles makes them behave differently: a same coil is magnetically more efficient and sonically "brighter" with slugs than with screws.
As the screws compensate their relative inefficiency by being often closer to the strings, this difference is subtle. Listen here: https://youtu.be/r9L8om-TXIo?si=z7QbFXnKps9peGZR&t=197
Now and to reply to the original question: in a humbucker whose coils are not balanced, potential differences are more complex IME than a question of unbalanced outputs and harmonic nodes... Asymetrical coils have most often different parasitic capacitance values + potentially different inductance values and it generates a dual-tuning effect possibly noticeable in the audio range (depending on the exact design involved: it would be a non-sense to generalize).
Maybe it will help to recall once again that I've devoted a topic to this question elsewhere. The post 23, especially, should illustrate what I mean:
https://music-electronics-forum.com...ransducers-a-few-thoughts?p=966921#post966921
FWIW: my 2 cents.
EDIT - beyond and beside the main resonant peak of any passive pickup, the dual-tuning effect possibly due to unbalanced parasitic capacitance cooperates more or less nicely with the "other" comb filtering effect due to the shape + location of pickups under the strings and whose effect is interestingly simulated in this page:
https://till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/index.html
FWIW, bis...
As the screws compensate their relative inefficiency by being often closer to the strings, this difference is subtle. Listen here: https://youtu.be/r9L8om-TXIo?si=z7QbFXnKps9peGZR&t=197
Now and to reply to the original question: in a humbucker whose coils are not balanced, potential differences are more complex IME than a question of unbalanced outputs and harmonic nodes... Asymetrical coils have most often different parasitic capacitance values + potentially different inductance values and it generates a dual-tuning effect possibly noticeable in the audio range (depending on the exact design involved: it would be a non-sense to generalize).
Maybe it will help to recall once again that I've devoted a topic to this question elsewhere. The post 23, especially, should illustrate what I mean:
https://music-electronics-forum.com...ransducers-a-few-thoughts?p=966921#post966921
FWIW: my 2 cents.
EDIT - beyond and beside the main resonant peak of any passive pickup, the dual-tuning effect possibly due to unbalanced parasitic capacitance cooperates more or less nicely with the "other" comb filtering effect due to the shape + location of pickups under the strings and whose effect is interestingly simulated in this page:
https://till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/index.html
FWIW, bis...
Last edited:
ehdwuld
A Ficus
In the greeny example of the OP
the "backwards" is a wiring thing
not the physical pickup being backwards
the Greeny sound is from the pickup wiring being out of phase
Not how the pickup was mounted
If you had a set of Prails
With a p90 and a rail pickup both in a humbucker sized package
It would make a difference in sound
Very subtle
more so if you split the coils
Like your asymmetric coils
Splitting to one or the other would make a much more noticeable difference
Than which coil is half an inch closer to the bridge
the "backwards" is a wiring thing
not the physical pickup being backwards
the Greeny sound is from the pickup wiring being out of phase
Not how the pickup was mounted
If you had a set of Prails
With a p90 and a rail pickup both in a humbucker sized package
It would make a difference in sound
Very subtle
more so if you split the coils
Like your asymmetric coils
Splitting to one or the other would make a much more noticeable difference
Than which coil is half an inch closer to the bridge
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
If we address the original post, yes, turning a humbucker with very imbalanced coils will produce a different sound. Look up sound clips of the DiMarzio Crunchlab if you want to see an example. P-Rails will also sound very different if you rotate them 180 degrees. The change is more obvious in a bridge humbucker.
freefrog
Well-known member
As I said in my first post, it depends on the design involved... and even on individual pickups (!), as explained in the section 2 below.
Examples.
1-A DiMarzio Dual-Resonance is designed to have dissimilar coils - with the lower resistance coil being paradoxically the louder, since it has the same number of turns / same inductance than its neighbour...
Such a design has a good chance to sound different when the pickup is rotated in its cavity... albeit the goal of Dual-Resonance designs seems different from one DiMarzio model to the next: in fact, the Dual-Resonance principle appears to be applied to achieve almost opposite effects, either symetrizing the response of coils beyond the main resonant peak and in loudness relatively to their position, either aggravating the comb filtering of high harmonics due to the unbalanced capacitive loads of 4-conductors cables.
2-A Bill Lawrence L500 has symetrical coils but still works with the unbalanced capacitive loads of its 4-conductors cable: depending on the remaining lenght of this 4-conductors cable and therefore, on the parasitic capacitance measured on each wire, it can generate the same kind of dual-tuning effect than between unbalanced coils... In such a case, the symetrical coils of a L500 have been made randomly unbalanced by external means, so to speak, and the sound also changes when the whole PU is flipped...
Non limitative list, to be continued or not.
Examples.
1-A DiMarzio Dual-Resonance is designed to have dissimilar coils - with the lower resistance coil being paradoxically the louder, since it has the same number of turns / same inductance than its neighbour...
Such a design has a good chance to sound different when the pickup is rotated in its cavity... albeit the goal of Dual-Resonance designs seems different from one DiMarzio model to the next: in fact, the Dual-Resonance principle appears to be applied to achieve almost opposite effects, either symetrizing the response of coils beyond the main resonant peak and in loudness relatively to their position, either aggravating the comb filtering of high harmonics due to the unbalanced capacitive loads of 4-conductors cables.
2-A Bill Lawrence L500 has symetrical coils but still works with the unbalanced capacitive loads of its 4-conductors cable: depending on the remaining lenght of this 4-conductors cable and therefore, on the parasitic capacitance measured on each wire, it can generate the same kind of dual-tuning effect than between unbalanced coils... In such a case, the symetrical coils of a L500 have been made randomly unbalanced by external means, so to speak, and the sound also changes when the whole PU is flipped...
Non limitative list, to be continued or not.
that is odd... how do you share pics? are they hosted or uploaded directly?
as far as flipping a pup with two different coils, yes, it makes a difference. how big a difference is due to things people already talked out. coil, wire, poles, turns, etc...
dimarzios dual resonance pat is two wire gauges but similar number of turns on each coil. they have a bunch of other pats too
as far as flipping a pup with two different coils, yes, it makes a difference. how big a difference is due to things people already talked out. coil, wire, poles, turns, etc...
dimarzios dual resonance pat is two wire gauges but similar number of turns on each coil. they have a bunch of other pats too
Artie
Peaveyologist
I upload a lot of pics. I can't imagine you've reached a limit. I always use the "attachments" button. (Red arrows.) Never the "images" button. (Green arrows.) YMMV.
And also, size matters. If the image is too large, there may be problems. Check the image size, and also select "thumbnail."
And also, size matters. If the image is too large, there may be problems. Check the image size, and also select "thumbnail."
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Yes, unbalanced coils will sound a bit different flipped around. Like freefrog said, even symmetrical wound hums will sound different flipped around if they have the standard pole pieces of slugs and screws. Screws towards the bridge is brighter, screws towards the neck is warmer.
nienturi
Active member
I use flickr to share photos, images etc.