dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile :) )

[drew_half_empty]

So after all this talk about needing a big 'ol amp to run in stereo with the deville it dawned on me that I could just make (or buy) a combo cab for my '69 dual showman reverb. I mean, internally it's probably not all that different than the super reverb I was askin about, and at 80 watts I have no doubt about the volume capabilities, so; on to the questions

- Can I run 5881's in this amp? If so, how much less headroom can i expect than with the JJ 6l6's in there now?

- Who makes the cheapest empty twin cab? Any blueprints out there on the web?

- Assuming equal SPL, what'll be the volume difference between a 212,410, and 115 cab? I assume that's the order from loudest to quietest, but it doesn't hurt to double check. Eventually I'd still like to get a bassman or something sitting on an amp stand above this one, so I don't want it to be so loud that, despite sitting on the floor, it still overpowers the one pointing at my head.

- Aaand on the subject of speakers, assuming I don't just use the 15 I have and sell the deville, I'll probably opt for 2x12 with one cleaner ceramic like a 12" california (JBL clone) or eminence wizard (g12h30 clone), and then IDEALLY something alnico and more tweedy sounding, but I have zero long-term experience with alnico speakers. I'm looking for something a little tighter on the bass and smoother in the highs than the cali/wizard that'll give some nice compression when the amp is cranked, but definitely isn't prone to that flubby bass speaker distortion. This amp has A LOT of low end, so I want something that'll help control that. Also if it sounds even remotely like a vintage 30 I won't like it, so yeah, nothing too middy/high middy


Thanks guys. I'm getting really excited about this project, and with 2 weeks of school left I'll be able to start working more and make it happen relatively soon.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

Bump, someone has to know something about getting a twin to drive a little

 

[jeremy]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

i have a '69 dsr head as well. its big loud and clean. mine has been blackfaced so its a little different than yours but still very similar. its LOUD and CLEAN. thats what it does. you can get them to grind but its gonna be really effin LOUD!

its a powerful amp so you need speakers that can handle it. if you are running 2x12's then minimum 50w each and if you are going to roll the volume up high then you probably should go more than that. four 10" push more air than two 12" which push more air than one 15". how does that relate to real world volume? i have no idea since ive never compared the different configurations with speakers that have the same efficiency and similar frequency response

im assuming you are talking about new 5881 tubes not nos. you can put new 5881 in the amp with just a rebias. it might lessen the volume a touch but not much.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

5881's are 23 (or 25) watts each max, 6L6GC are 30 watts, you'll have noticebly more headroom from the JJ's. You could try some of those TAD 6L6WGC things or the Tungsol 6L6GC, they're supposed to be more like 5881's. I'm guessing you're wanting a tweed-ish sound?

 

[jeremy]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

real 5881, yes. now days its just a 6l6gc in a different bottle with the same tonal changes youd get from a different 6l6

 

[Bludave]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

So after all this talk about needing a big 'ol amp to run in stereo with the deville it dawned on me that I could just make (or buy) a combo cab for my '69 dual showman reverb. I mean, internally it's probably not all that different than the super reverb I was askin about, and at 80 watts I have no doubt about the volume capabilities, so; on to the questions

- Can I run 5881's in this amp? If so, how much less headroom can i expect than with the JJ 6l6's in there now?

- Who makes the cheapest empty twin cab? Any blueprints out there on the web?

- Assuming equal SPL, what'll be the volume difference between a 212,410, and 115 cab? I assume that's the order from loudest to quietest, but it doesn't hurt to double check. Eventually I'd still like to get a bassman or something sitting on an amp stand above this one, so I don't want it to be so loud that, despite sitting on the floor, it still overpowers the one pointing at my head.

- Aaand on the subject of speakers, assuming I don't just use the 15 I have and sell the deville, I'll probably opt for 2x12 with one cleaner ceramic like a 12" california (JBL clone) or eminence wizard (g12h30 clone), and then IDEALLY something alnico and more tweedy sounding, but I have zero long-term experience with alnico speakers. I'm looking for something a little tighter on the bass and smoother in the highs than the cali/wizard that'll give some nice compression when the amp is cranked, but definitely isn't prone to that flubby bass speaker distortion. This amp has A LOT of low end, so I want something that'll help control that. Also if it sounds even remotely like a vintage 30 I won't like it, so yeah, nothing too middy/high middy


Thanks guys. I'm getting really excited about this project, and with 2 weeks of school left I'll be able to start working more and make it happen relatively soon.

Actually the Dual Showman is more like a Fender Twin then a Super Reverb. It is 85W and they were usually paired with a 2 15" bottom usually equipped with JBL D-130F speakers. They are powered with 4 6L6 tubes so I am not certain weather a 5881 will fit?? I would look very carefully at how it is mounted in the cabinet. You may be able to buy a cabinet from Avatar or whoever and just drill a few mounting screws to hang it in there, but I would recommend leaving it as a head and just buy a 2 12 or better yet a 2 15" bottom. That's what they were originally designed for.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

Yeah I know it's closest to a twin, but IIRC none of the blackface amps are really that different internally beyond tubes & speakers

I found this page for anyone interested--I think I'll definitely be pulling v1 and doin the trem disconnect mod

http://fenderguru.com/amps/twin-reverb/comment-page-1#comments

 

[jeremy]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

the basic circuitry is similar but the voltages on the tubes are different which will effect the tone.

are you trying to lower the volume of this beast? only use two power tubes biased hot and run an 8 ohm cab to keep the relationship correct. it wont cut the power in half but it will help a little.

just read the link. pulling v1 is fine. it makes the 2nd half of v2 a little gainier since the resister isnt shared with the second half of v1 anymore. i disconnected the trem on my bf deluxe reverb and it does help the tone, little fatter and louder. i kinda wish i did it on a pot cause it would be nice to have the trem sometimes but oh well. ill fix it someday. i also have the nfb on a switch. there is a serious jump in volume and aggressiveness with no nfb. i like it sometimes but others its too much so i like having it on a switch.

 

[AL30]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

Bump, someone has to know something about getting a twin to drive a little

This comes up all the time. The best response I ever saw was "you're trying to make a cat bark". A little over the top but definitely gets the point accross. They're loud and clean. You can get a little drive at around 6 on the volume with humbuckers. That's pretty loud. Likely way too loud for most clubs. Disconnecting the trem really doesn't do much - a little but not much. I would recommend using an overdrive pedal. It's quicker, easier, less invasive and if you don't like it you just unplug it. Tube screamers work well with Fenders.

FYI - A Dual Showman Reverb is a Fender Twin circuit in a head cab. Twin is a 2x12", Quad Reverb is a 4x12" combo (I have one these), Super-Six Reverb is a 6x10" combo, and the Vibroverb (?) is a 1x15" combo. All the same circuit.

AL

 

[jeremy]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

you're trying to make a cat bark

thats about the size of it really, but if you set it up right that thing will distort like crazy and sound awesome. it will also be as loud as the space shuttle taking off

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

This comes up all the time. The best response I ever saw was "you're trying to make a cat bark". A little over the top but definitely gets the point accross. They're loud and clean. You can get a little drive at around 6 on the volume with humbuckers. That's pretty loud. Likely way too loud for most clubs. Disconnecting the trem really doesn't do much - a little but not much. I would recommend using an overdrive pedal. It's quicker, easier, less invasive and if you don't like it you just unplug it. Tube screamers work well with Fenders.

FYI - A Dual Showman Reverb is a Fender Twin circuit in a head cab. Twin is a 2x12", Quad Reverb is a 4x12" combo (I have one these), Super-Six Reverb is a 6x10" combo, and the Vibroverb (?) is a 1x15" combo. All the same circuit.

AL

I understand

but a cranked hot rod deville isn't loud enough

thus, a twin probably is

 

[jeremy]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

if you just want this thing to sound righteous on 10 i can help you make that happen. what ya really trying to get?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

i read recently jimi hendrix used dual showmans on his first album. That was news to me....but yeah - it makes sense - big loud and clean with a fuzz face giving the dirt.

 

[AL30]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

thats about the size of it really, but if you set it up right that thing will distort like crazy and sound awesome. it will also be as loud as the space shuttle taking off

Yep, I agree (on both accounts). But usually volume is the issue with a twin. Evidently it isn't in this case. So crank it... and get out of the way.

AL

 

[Bludave]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

the basic circuitry is similar but the voltages on the tubes are different which will effect the tone.

are you trying to lower the volume of this beast? only use two power tubes biased hot and run an 8 ohm cab to keep the relationship correct. it wont cut the power in half but it will help a little.

just read the link. pulling v1 is fine. it makes the 2nd half of v2 a little gainier since the resister isnt shared with the second half of v1 anymore. i disconnected the trem on my bf deluxe reverb and it does help the tone, little fatter and louder. i kinda wish i did it on a pot cause it would be nice to have the trem sometimes but oh well. ill fix it someday. i also have the nfb on a switch. there is a serious jump in volume and aggressiveness with no nfb. i like it sometimes but others its too much so i like having it on a switch.

I have the pot mod on my DR. It adds the tubes for the Trem into the power section(from what I'm told) I don't really know much about it. It was like this when I bought it. It does get a little gainier, but I can't really tell much difference. I don't really use the vibrato at all(right now my pedal is broke, I goota solder the ends back on). I would use it more if I could though!

 

[Bludave]

Re: dual showman revamping --last amp question (for awhile )

i read recently jimi hendrix used dual showmans on his first album. That was news to me....but yeah - it makes sense - big loud and clean with a fuzz face giving the dirt.

Actually it was Elecric Ladyland. He plugged into a Dual Showman hooked up to a cab with 8 10" speakers. Voodo Chile(slight return) was recorded this way. Who Knew!! I just recently watched the Wah-Wah video and Eddie Kramer stated this. Never would have known!