Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

[Lewguitar]

This will be an ongoing thread as I compare these two pickups over the course of a week or so...so I expect my first impressions to change a little as I become accustomed to these pickups and learn how to best adjust them in these guitars.

I have two identical single pickup Strats. Each alder and each 8 lbs. Rosewood fingerboard and vintage Strat vibrato on each. Each routed for a single bridge humbucker. Single 500K volume control...no tone control.

#1 has a 59 Trembucker
#2 has a Custom Custom Trembucker

I did a little shoot out this morning. I'll be posting more as I only had a chance to compare each for a few minutes this morning through my Matchless SC-30.

My initial impressions though are that in terms of bass response, the bass of each pickup is about the same volume, which really surprised me. I think it's because the CC is wound hotter, so even though it has less bass relative to midrange, because it's wound hotter the bass appears to be about the same volume.

Regarding mids, the Custom Custom has alot more midrange...much louder, thicker, smoother, more syrupy mids than the 59B.

Regarding highs, the 59B is brighter and the treble frequencies are louder and more pronounced.

I have to say that at this early stage of the comparism that I prefer the 59B. It seems livlier and I do not hear any lack of mids in this guitar. Instead. the 59B has very much the classic humbucker through a British amp rock tone. Clapton on Disrali Gears, early Van Halen, Jeff Beck on the Truth LP, etc.

In order to get similar high end performance from the CC, I had to dime the tone control on the amp compared to about 3/4 up or less for the 59B. Even with the tone control dimed, the CC still has a very thick smooth tone due to the thick mids.

I'll spend alot more time comparing these two guitars and these two pickups and get back with another report tommorrow, but so far: I like the 59B a little more than the CC.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

59's rock Lew, you know that, I know that :laugh2:

Look forward to hearing more compare/contrast though.

 

[roadstar II]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

lew i never got to try the CC
i had the custom with the ceramic but traded it before trying a magnet swap
I do have a 59 bridge pup and love it except the output is a little low but not by a lot?
would the CC be too high output and compressed to give off a transparent,open,crisp paf tone like the 59 does?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

Another good Lew Review. My Strat has a Little '59 in it and sounds really nice. I like the response from that pickup. It actually matches really nice with the stock Strat pickups in the middle and neck pretty good. I don't tweak any of the settings on my amp when going between it and my LP, which has a CC. But I've also had the CC in an alder guitar and liked it a lot but I like it more in my mahogany bodied LP. I'm glad my Little '59 didn't sell when I was selling it though. I'd miss it for sure because it allows me to pull all that crazy hair metal from the 80's out of my Strat with ease.

Lew, if you want to hear what the CC I purchased from you sounds like in my LP, I started a thread in the Tips and Clips forum. Further down in the thread is another clip (who song though) where I play my Strat and LP on it so you can hear the Little '59 and CC up against each other.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

lew i never got to try the CC
i had the custom with the ceramic but traded it before trying a magnet swap
I do have a 59 bridge pup and love it except the output is a little low but not by a lot?
would the CC be too high output and compressed to give off a transparent,open,crisp paf tone like the 59 does?

I have the CC is my Hamer Monoco Super Pro (chambered body) and the Strat I described in this thread. It's not that high output...I'm not really sure that it's that much louder than the 59B, because alnico 2 tends to give you less bass. But because the CC is wound with thinner wire than the 59TB and the CC is wound to 14.4K compared to 8.2K for the 59TB in terms of bass they seem very similar. If the CC were wound to 8.2K, like the 59B, I think then the CC would seem to have less bass.

In any case, I would not describe the CC as having as transparent a tone or as crisp a tone as the 59B. It is not what I would call a "breathy" pickup...there's not a lot of "space" in the tonal spectrum. It seems like the tone is very much "filled up" and thick. It's a very full, very thick, warm, smooth pickup. The CC is a killer through an amp that's maybe a little to bright sometimes: like a 100 watt Marshall.

The CC has a great tone...but no: it's not especially transparent, crisp, biting or paf like.

It IS very easy to listen to and very easy on the ears. You know how some folks complain about the JB being to bright and hurting thier ears? I would never expect to hear a comment like that about the Custom Custom!

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

In order to get similar high end performance from the CC, I had to dime the tone control on the amp compared to about 3/4 up or less for the 59B. Even with the tone control dimed, the CC still has a very thick smooth tone due to the thick mids.

Two words:

C...4...

Problem solved.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

Two words:

C...4...

Problem solved.

I like alnico 4...but I think it sounds best in a pickup that is wound with the alnico 4 magnet in mind. I ordered a bunch of alnico 4 magnets for the guys on this forum and most of the feedback I got from the guys who tried them in Customs, 59's, etc. is that they made the pickup a little to crisp...

 

[BachToRock]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

Very accurate notes on these two pickups Lew...

That is why the Custom/59 Hybrid is my favorite... it is the perfect blend of the open/articulate/transparent vintage tone of the 59 and the creamy/lush tone of the Custom Custom.

I have been using the The C/59 Hybrid for 25 years now and every once in a while I will throw a 59, Custom Custom, JB and an EVH in an axe to re-evaluate.

The JB and Custom Custom are just too compressed sounding for me and the 59 lacks a certain "strength" that I look for in tone. The EVH gets that strength being an overwind of the 59, but it loses the tranparency.

I think it is safe to say that each wire type and guage has it's magical zone of turns on a coil to achieve an optimal balance of tone, response and output.

The Hybrid uses one 42 guage vintage wind 59 coil (4.15k) and one 43 guage Custom coil (7.2k) combined to make what I consider the perfect bridge pickup (11.25k) for a vintage with balls tone. Plus, the output and tone balances perfectly with a vintage neck pickup.

The tone is on par with my other favorite Bridge pickup... the PHAT CAT!

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

I like alnico 4...but I think it sounds best in a pickup that is wound with the alnico 4 magnet in mind. I ordered a bunch of alnico 4 magnets for the guys on this forum and most of the feedback I got from the guys who tried them in Customs, 59's, etc. is that they made the pickup a little to crisp...

Then try a C3. Got one in my ES-355 and it sounds great!!

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

I like alnico 4...but I think it sounds best in a pickup that is wound with the alnico 4 magnet in mind. I ordered a bunch of alnico 4 magnets for the guys on this forum and most of the feedback I got from the guys who tried them in Customs, 59's, etc. is that they made the pickup a little to crisp...

What do you mean by "TO CRISP" Lew ?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

I don't get that either. Alnico 4 is decidedly less crisp than Alnico 5 or ceramic. Pretty bloody smooth to these ears...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

What do you mean by "TO CRISP" Lew ?

That's what the feedback I got on this forum was. Not everyone felt that way...but many did. As for me, I like alnico 4 humbuckers but I have never installed alnico 4 in a Duncan pickup. I've only used alnico 4 in Lindy's humbuckers which were wound to compliment the alnico 4 magnet. That's why I said I thought alnico 4 sounded good in pickups wound for alnico 4 magnets. However, when I've compared Lindy's 7.5K humbuckers to Seymour's pickups wound in the same range but with alnico 2 ( Seth Lover and Antiquity come to mind) and with alnico 5 (Jazz Neck and 59 neck) Lindy's 7.5K with alnico 4 sounds clearer and has a brighter, crisper, "zingier" tone! :smack: His 8K and 8.5K neck humbuckers with alnico 4 sound warmer, thicker and fatter...not as crisp as the 7.5K model.

I asked Lindy what he thought was the diff in tone between a2, a4 and a5, and he told me he thought that in HIS PICKUPS: a4 had more mids than a5 and more bass and treble than a2.

I have some guitars with Lindy Fralin pickups and one with Tom Holmes HB's, and I love those guitars. :dance: But I have Duncans in most of my guitars...the Duncan humbucker tone is warmer and just takes me back to the tone of the vintage Gibsons from the 50's and 60's: the tones I grew up with and feel comfortable with.

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

OK this is all we need , an i can trust those words of Mr fralin .
:beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug:

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

One thing I notice immediately with 59's is how well they sustain and sing.....probably because of the decreased string pull, compared to a Custom series.

I like the CC, but it never lasts long in any of my guitars. I guess I like less mids, since I use amps that are midheavy, and I'd rather hear THOSE mids. For me, the 59's, C-5's, and Seth Lovers are always my 'go to' pickups. The C-5 kinda bridges the gap between the 59 and CC. For awhile, I was using my overwound UGD Custom 5 (15.3K), but pulled it out of my gold top and went back to the regular nickel C-5. I think Seymour made the Customs 14.4K because they're right at that median point where they're hot enough, but are still open sounding, not compressed.
My overwound C-5 has a hint of compression like a JB or CC, and I think it's not what I want.

 

[remingtonbo2001]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

Alright, Tone Efficianado's, I need some help. I recently purchased a set of 59's, which were to replace the CC in the bridge position. I did not have anything placed in the neck. The guitar being used is an Ibanez GIO, basswood body, rosewood fretboard. I installed the 59 set, and was disapointed. It seemed as if it was too much of everything, somewhat harsh. I took out the 59 neck out and tried to use the 59 bridge by itself. It helped a little, but not much. My only beef with the CC was that it lacked the highs when playing the E-String past the 12th fret. Other than that, it was a brilliant pickup. I still have it and have considered the following. Swaping out the Alnico 5 in the 59 Bridge for the Alinco 2. Trading in the set of 59's for a jazz neck pickup. What would be best suited? The guitar is running through a modified Marshall 250 DFX, with Presonus Blue Tube, Optical Compressor, Behringer Virtulizer Pro 2024 in the loop. The only pedal being used is the Tech 21 Double Drive. Any opinions? Thanks!

 

[gripweed]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

Very accurate notes on these two pickups Lew...

That is why the Custom/59 Hybrid is my favorite... it is the perfect blend of the open/articulate/transparent vintage tone of the 59 and the creamy/lush tone of the Custom Custom.

I have been using the The C/59 Hybrid for 25 years now and every once in a while I will throw a 59, Custom Custom, JB and an EVH in an axe to re-evaluate.

The JB and Custom Custom are just too compressed sounding for me and the 59 lacks a certain "strength" that I look for in tone. The EVH gets that strength being an overwind of the 59, but it loses the tranparency.

I think it is safe to say that each wire type and guage has it's magical zone of turns on a coil to achieve an optimal balance of tone, response and output.

The Hybrid uses one 42 guage vintage wind 59 coil (4.15k) and one 43 guage Custom coil (7.2k) combined to make what I consider the perfect bridge pickup (11.25k) for a vintage with balls tone. Plus, the output and tone balances perfectly with a vintage neck pickup.

The tone is on par with my other favorite Bridge pickup... the PHAT CAT!

Lew, I love to hear a review of one of these. Any chance?

 

[MattPete]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

I like alnico 4...but I think it sounds best in a pickup that is wound with the alnico 4 magnet in mind. I ordered a bunch of alnico 4 magnets for the guys on this forum and most of the feedback I got from the guys who tried them in Customs, 59's, etc. is that they made the pickup a little to crisp...

Yep, I'm one of those that Lew sent an A4 to, and I thought it made the CC sound too crisp. I guess at least one person likes A4s, but they're not for me (I also tried one in a PGn).

 

[gripweed]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

The Phat Cat? My problem is that I only have two guitars that I can put a standard neck and bridge humbucker size pickup in and I love the pickups that are already in those two guitars: Tom Holmes HB's in my Les Paul and Duncan Seth Lover and Custom Custom in my Hamer Monoco. I could try the Phat Cats in my two HB Strat, but the bridge pickup polepieces wouldn't line up under the strings because that guitar has the wider Fender string spacing. Besides, it has two great pickups in it already: Duncan Peraly Gates neck and 59 Trembucker. I'll see what I can do...

Lol, no I was referring to Bach's hybrid...

 

[SoCalSteve]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

I picked up my Fender Showmaster so I could have a trem equipped guitar mainly for VH stuff and the '59 bridge really gives a great tone. In the past, most of the guitars I've been through have had hot pickups so I thought those were my preference, but after using the '59b I've found that I can get great tone and pinch harmonics with lower output p/ups.

 

[BachToRock]

Re: Duncan 59 vs. Custom Custom...

I should just send Lew a damn hybrid to evaluate... it seems we have the same taste in tone... especially the love of late 50's Tweed Deluxes!
Once you pop one o' dem der hybrids in yer getar, der ain't no looki back...