Duncan C-5 or Gibson BB Pro??

[papersoul]

Has anyone compared the two??

I don't like the C-5 in my Korean Dean Evo, but want to take the chance and try the C-5 in my Les Paul. The BB Pros feel a little weak and tame, even with the new .022 caps and 500k pots. They sound rich and organic but I think that is more the guitar.

I hear guys swear by it and other say it is blah. That is what I hear in my old Dean....but again the guitar effects a lot!!

Convince me to take the plunge and not order another JB!

Thanks!

Warren Lee Lynch.....you had this to say:

"OK you see the problem is that with a P.A.F type like the BB it will never compete with a overwound bucker like a BBQ or JB harmonic wise or output wise which is why you have to re-EQ
your amp when switching between those pups.
a P.A.F will have way more presence,less output, and not drive a amp like a JB or BBQ.
I use higher output pups for thier drive. i made a compromise of the great P.A.F tone along with the drive of a JB or BBQ,i use the CUSTOM(sh-5 or TB-5 ceramic) it is just a perfect blend of PAF type tone with the balls and harmonics of a JB or BBQ!
other pups that work for me that help me get my PAF tone needs along with more heat are the wolfgangs.many dont know how to EQ these right and say they suck! but the wolf pups are great IF you dial them in right)
the custom is more PAF though.
If you want to use a 8K pup like a BB you have to keep in mind tha every time you switch guitars that is loaded with a hot pup like JB it will sound VERY different
unless you have two amp setups,one for a lower output pup and one for the hotties"

Thanks for the insight!

 

[papersoul]

I am afraid a Custom will make my amp too harsh as I run a Line 6 Vetta II head.

 

[TheArchitect]

seriously rich, If you spent the time you have invested here and the LPF practicing with the iron you would have most of your answers already first hand. Its easy, I know you can do it................ So snap to it! We want to hear what YOU think on these issues.

Rock on Brother!

 

[dr.barlo]

seriously rich, If you spent the time you have invested here and the LPF practicing with the iron you would have most of your answers already first hand. Its easy, I know you can do it................ So snap to it! We want to hear what YOU think on these issues.

Rock on Brother!

.

 

[papersoul]

In all honesty, I opened up two guitars the other night with the intention of swaping pickups but realized the current installation was nothing like the Duncan diagram i had in front of me. Why is that? are there a zillion different ways to wire up the same pickups? I was going to just gut the guitar and install new pots, caps, wire, etc and follow the Duncan diagram. Maybe I'll try that.

Does it matter what type of wire I use? Gauge? I say this because it seems I may end up needing extra wire for the output jack, etc.

I also noticed on this guitar and actually other guitars that the cap isn't wired between the pots....rather it seem wire from the tone pot terminal to the back of the pot. What is this?

Thanks.

 

[WARRENLEELYNCH]

I am afraid a Custom will make my amp too harsh as I run a Line 6 Vetta II head.

can i put this myth to rest?
because a pup uses a ceramic magnet does not mean it will be harsh
any pup can can sound harsh if it is EQ'd wrong.
If i could paint you a picture of what the SH or TB-5 custom sounds like it would be
IF a Burstbucker or any other P.A.F went to the gym and did some serious lifting along with taking steriods,you would have what the CUSTOM sounds like:laugh2:
seriously it is a P.A.F tone only a lot more of it, not dark like a BBQ or dull like the C5
but just the ole P.A.F tone pumped up:bigok:

this is what rio was going for with the BBQ but they failed

 

[papersoul]

Thanks dude.......I am getting a Custom and JB off ebay but I have to be honest. I talk to a lot of guys who say the Custom will not be as warm as the C-5, especially through a modelling amp. They say a tad dry on leads. I think that is why so many end up with the JB.......the fact that it is warm and has a good clean with plenty of singing highs and harmonics.

Why do you say the BBQ is a failed pickup? Have you tried it? I think it dows have more girth in tone that either the C-5 or JB, but that doesn't always indicate that it is better.

 

[WARRENLEELYNCH]

Thanks dude.......I am getting a Custom and JB off ebay but I have to be honest. I talk to a lot of guys who say the Custom will not be as warm as the C-5, especially through a modelling amp. They say a tad dry on leads. I think that is why so many end up with the JB.......the fact that it is warm and has a good clean with plenty of singing highs and harmonics.

Why do you say the BBQ is a failed pickup? Have you tried it? I think it dows have more girth in tone that either the C-5 or JB, but that doesn't always indicate that it is better.

when i say the BBQ is a failed pup i mean it was supposed to sound like a P.A.F only much fatter and it does not it is very upper middy and dark,the CUSTOM on the other hand does sound like it is supposed to and is not dark at all,it has great presence along with the GIRTH
make sure you set the CUSTOM to at least 5/32" bass side and 4/32" treble side.
since it has a strong ceramic magnet you dont want it too close for these two reasons,
1. magnet will pull more on strings causing less sustain
2. close settings with a custom will make it harsh sounding due to it's aggressive,ballsy P.A.F tone

so by keeping it at those recomended heights she will sound sweet not harsh,everyone who hears it in my axe swears it is a custom shop duncan and all it is, is a standard CUSTOM TB-5:beerchug:

 

[papersoul]

How does it compare to the JB as I am very familiar with the JB and Rio BBq in the same guitar. I found the BBQ a tad thicker.

I have the C-5 and BBQ set at about 2/16" from the strings. That is too high for the Custom?

How is the clean compared to the BBQ and JB? Thanks bro!!


Hey....there is a Custom on ebay for a good price but the guy says it has a short lead.:2:

 

[WARRENLEELYNCH]

How does it compare to the JB as I am very familiar with the JB and Rio BBq in the same guitar. I found the BBQ a tad thicker.

I have the C-5 and BBQ set at about 2/16" from the strings. That is too high for the Custom?

How is the clean compared to the BBQ and JB? Thanks bro!!


Hey....there is a Custom on ebay for a good price but the guy says it has a short lead.:2:

take the JB and knock off some of the upper mids,add more bass and low mids then you got a custom.

clean is OK,but i use mine split in conjuction with a single coil( classic stack) for cleans,i dont like the bridge bucker only for cleans

how short is the lead on it?

 

[WARRENLEELYNCH]

oh yeah! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3709658010&category=41430

 

[Robert S.]

PaperSoul, I used to know a guy in just your situation. I used to call him MR but I had an out of body experience and strangled him in a dream a few nights ago for asking the same questions over and over on the boards, in PMs and emails to me. Lets hope you don't suffer his same fate. :butkick:

Lots of guys run EMGs and other high output pickups into the Line 6 stuff so you can stop worrying about that issue. The medium output of the Custom will not overload your input or sound harsh. The Custom is a bit more agressive than the C-5 but it has a far higher mid content and as a result sounds warmer and fuller than the C-5 to me. I don't know who these guys are that keep telling you stuff, but the many and varied opinions you are fetching off of your various sources are confusing you.

The only way you will ever know what a pickup will really sound like in your guitar is to install it. Suggestions and pointers only go so far. There is no other way.

There are a couple of variations on guitar wiring but they all work out the same in the long run. Most LP type guitars are wired pickups to pots to switch to jack. Some are wired like Gibsons and have the caps between the pots, others are wired fender style with the pots wired together and the caps run from terminal to ground as your guitar is wired. Both ways work so choose the one you want to wire.

I use 24 guage Belden 4 conductor sheilded wire for rewiring LP type guitars and I pull out single strands for short runs inside the control cavity. 22 or 24 stranded wire works fine, larger guages can get hard to work with.

I might put off a complete gut job until you get a little more confident in your soldering and schematic reading skills, but swapping out the pickups should be an easy job. If you do a complete re-work and run into problems of course I'll be happy to help you out.

 

[WARRENLEELYNCH]

PaperSoul, I used to know a guy in just your situation. I used to call him MR but I had an out of body experience and strangled him in a dream a few nights ago for asking the same questions over and over on the boards, in PMs and emails to me. Lets hope you don't suffer his same fate. :butkick:

Lots of guys run EMGs and other high output pickups into the Line 6 stuff so you can stop worrying about that issue. The medium output of the Custom will not overload your input or sound harsh. The Custom is a bit more agressive than the C-5 but it has a far higher mid content and as a result sounds warmer and fuller than the C-5 to me. I don't know who these guys are that keep telling you stuff, but the many and varied opinions you are fetching off of your various sources are confusing you.

The only way you will ever know what a pickup will really sound like in your guitar is to install it. Suggestions and pointers only go so far. There is no other way.

There are a couple of variations on guitar wiring but they all work out the same in the long run. Most LP type guitars are wired pickups to pots to switch to jack. Some are wired like Gibsons and have the caps between the pots, others are wired fender style with the pots wired together and the caps run from terminal to ground as your guitar is wired. Both ways work so choose the one you want to wire.

I use 24 guage Belden 4 conductor sheilded wire for rewiring LP type guitars and I pull out single strands for short runs inside the control cavity. 22 or 24 stranded wire works fine, larger guages can get hard to work with.

I might put off a complete gut job until you get a little more confident in your soldering and schematic reading skills, but swapping out the pickups should be an easy job. If you do a complete re-work and run into problems of course I'll be happy to help you out.

My god i just read one of the wisest recomendations ever:beerchug:
listen to this guy!

 

[shred-dog]

robert s is so right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[papersoul]

What a wise soul you are Robert...

Okay.....BBQ is good but a tad dark. C-5...good....but I notice I like more thickness in a pickup because that is what my ears like.
I hear guys say it is better to have less mids in a p'up, but I know what my ears like. I notice a little lack of bass in a JB, but it is warm. If the Custom is almost as warm as the JB and has a shifted EQ....count me in. I have a 59 neck p'up ready so I just need that Custom bridge to try.

That is a good description of the mids on the Custom having more mids giving a warmer impression. I know I see reviews stating thast you want you mids to come from the amp as that will sound warmer....but I beg to differ........I find scooped p'up can sound icy through a digital amp.

So that 24 gauge wire you mention...can I get it at most music shops? It sounds like you are referring to the same four conductor wire that comes stock on many pickups? I have some .022 caps on order also, but will use the stock pots. They are covered in some serious solder. Can i re-use this or remove, hence ricking frying the pot? Maybe just order new ones?

I could order what I need from BlackRose....pots...caps...wire. I hear the orange drops are fine.

One last thing on this......how is the Custom clean compared to the C-5 and JB?


What about this one on ebay? Is the lead too short?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710474321&category=41430

 

[Robert S.]

The Belden 4 cond. wire I bought at a local electrical/electronics parts store. It was tradesman oriented as opposed to Radio Shack which is consumer oriented. You can get single strand 22 or 24 guage wire at Radio Shack or the hardware store.

You can remove solder but over heating the pot is a real concern. I usually just keep re-using them utilizing the old solder until they need replaced. Once you kearn how to solder to a chassis and not use huge globs of solder the job will look neater and re-use will be easier.

The SH-5 on Ebay has a long enough lead that you could solder extra wire to it if you needed to.

All the Custom pickups aned the JB have very good clean voices.

I hope "wisw sould" isn't the same thing as peckerwood in another language.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Rich, stop riding the fence! Aren't your balls scratched up yet?

Whip out a soldering iron and start answering your own questions. I don't know what you're hearing when you plug your guitar in, but you better start liking something you hear.

But......what do you think of the Fillmore's? How bout the CC?
Oh, but don't forget about the the Burstbucker 3! But maybe that's not as tight as the C-5. But what if the C-5 is too hollow?
Then the Custom would be better. But....that has a ceramic magnet, so I think we should spend big dollars on Holmes, but I can't find any, cause they're outta business. Oh crap, now I gotta start over, and go back to Duncan, but Duncans are getting too common, and Dimarzios have ugly pole pieces. OH GOD!@!!!

 

[papersoul]

Thanks again Robert.

To get a few things straight......the 24 gauge wire from radio shack, is that okay? Any worse than tradesman quality?

It seems as if I can keep the caps in place since they are achieving the same result.

About the excess solder. The guy who did the previous job left a lot of solder on the back of the pot. Is it okay to just heat this solder....remove the wire...re-heat and add the new wire? Will this still be a good conductor?

I'd rather not spend 5 minutes cleaning solder off the back of the pot in the process frying it!

Thanks!

 

[Robert S.]

Thats what I do, but I use a little flux to really even out the heat. You may have to add a little bit of solder to make sure the connection is solid but go light.

 

[papersoul]

Do you find you have to remove the selector switch to solder the new wire? I notice it is very tight in the selctor cavity so I can't see trying to squeeze the iron in that location. I noticed that the one wire will need to go to the selector, a few will be soldered and ground in the pickup cavity and the other to the pot..........or something like that...hehe. I don't have the schematic in front of me.