Epi dot replacements

Re: Epi dot replacements

59s are plenty warm for jazz, so is a jazz neck.
He did not say he wanted a smooth overdriven tone, he said he wanted a warm straight ahead jazz tone. They also have a nice piano like bass response which is good. Also - a clearer pickup means you can roll off the treble on the amp a little more which i find very pleasing to the ears.
The warmth that people immediately regognize in classic jazz tones is gained in an unusual way...its using the rolled back volume and tone knobs a little to smooth oof the sound. Why do they do that i hear you ask? why dont they leave the tone and volume at 10 and use pedals or channel switching etc?
A lot of rock and blues players juts do everything with the volume on 10 cos its brighter and more present (plus gets more overdrive). Getting the right clean and warm jazz tone is different. here's why:
Saxophones dont have gain, pedals etc...the player mixes himself uning the mic and his breath.
Same goes for all wind instruments.
Pianos have an enormous dynamic range, so they use their fingers for mixing themselves.
Drummers in a jazz context use their hands too.
its all very subtle right?live sound engineers tend to set up the mics and then let the band do the rest.
A lot of straight jazz players use very little in the way of effects (mike stern et al notwithstanding) , generlaly you can say its guitar into amp. Its to gain maximum timbral response from the fingers. a clear unadorned sound gives a lot of scope for subtlety - kinda like how a classical player shapes their tone, or a sax or violin etc....
Now an electric guitar in a jazz combo spends a lot of time comping. in a jazz context a lot of that is about subtlety and blending - hence the use of the volume and tone knobs.
Same goes for lead - often if the player opens up the volume knob, they get a big extra dose of brightness, so they roll off the tone to keep that warm fat sound. Or - in the case of many many players, they dont often roll their volume up to 10 (if at all). As a result, pickups with wide frequency response work great, because the give the player a lot of flexibility to shape tones with subtlety and the musical context is constantly changing around them.
Its a whole different approach to the classic rock or blues thing, where you often kinda have a preset, clean tone, crunch rhythm and lead boost, then just switch between pickups of use different pedals for colour.
Thats why im recommending the 59 and or the jazz. Listening to you tube clips with someone jamming along using a lot of overdrive to with a synthy backing track is totally different from sitting in with a straight jazz band.

ps...treble detail is not by definition the opposite to warmth.
There is nothing wrong with some treble in a jazz tone too...listen to grant green (a gibson 330 with p90s) or wes montgomery (l5 thru a fender twin usually) or even charlie christian (again a single coil) . All 3 players have very different set ups, but they all sound warm. Check out Kenny Burrell too listen to how much work he does on the volume/tone knobs. or george benson. Kurl Rosenwinklel or Jonathan Kreisberg.
Seymour knew waht he was doing when he designed the jazz btw.....


I certainly hear what you're saying. And can't deny a word of it. I have always recommended the use of the existing vol and tone knobs on instruments and amps.

In fact, I think I would be inclined to recommend a Jazz in the neck and maybe a Screamin Demon in the bridge (which is very articulate with a nice even frequency response), or a '59 with an A8 for the bridge.

But, I also understand what others have recommended as far as Seths, etc. are concerned. They are warm but are not totally lacking the high end component either, and can be dialed in for playing jazz very easily in a fairly bright Epi Dot.

There is not one answer to the question, and I think that there are many pups that will work well for jazz in a Dot...the ones suggested are great pups.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

I certainly hear what you're saying. And can't deny a word of it. I have always recommended the use of the existing vol and tone knobs on instruments and amps.

In fact, I think I would be inclined to recommend a Jazz in the neck and maybe a Screamin Demon in the bridge (which is very articulate with a nice even frequency response), or a '59 with an A8 for the bridge.

But, I also understand what others have recommended as far as Seths, etc. are concerned. They are warm but are not totally lacking the high end component either, and can be dialed in for playing jazz very easily in a fairly bright Epi Dot.

There is not one answer to the question, and I think that there are many pups that will work well for jazz in a Dot...the ones suggested are great pups.

Thats true. They are all good pickups. Its all context.
 
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Re: Epi dot replacements

I have had two Sheratons and I loved the stock pickups. I believe the Dot must have used the same pickups as the Sheraton II. But these were '90's Samick-made Epis, not the current ones (Are they made in China now?), so that is my frame of reference. I have not liked the newer Epiphones that I have tried.

But, strangely enough, my favorite "pure jazz" tone that I have ever got is from the neck position of my MIJ Epi SG (same exact construction as an Elitist, but made for the Japanese domestic market, and with the proper Gibson headstock shape). I have '57 Classics in that guitar. The guitar sounds the part, though it doesn't really look it. So I would just suggest a simple PAF clone. Nothing fancy. Gibson makes 'em fine these days.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

ive removed 2 sets of gibson 57s from my two main gig guitars. They are better than epi pickups, but thats not saying much. I tried to like them, but in the end they are just not very good.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

ive removed 2 sets of gibson 57s from my two main gig guitars.

Same here. IME, in an average of two years most of the customers that paid me to install '57 Classics in their Epis return asking to change the p'ups with Duncans or boutique ones.

There must be a reason for it; I just let the facts speak for themselves.

HTH,
 
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Re: Epi dot replacements

59's with a StellarTone Tone Styler jazz tone knobs.

But the Warmth comment really made me think A2P's also.

*Disclosure: I do not own a semi!
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

ive removed 2 sets of gibson 57s from my two main gig guitars. They are better than epi pickups, but thats not saying much. I tried to like them, but in the end they are just not very good.

'57's are much better with different magnets. Put an A5 in the neck and an UOA5 in the bridge, and you wouldn't recognize them. GIbson seems to have a knack for matching up the wrong manget/wind combinations in their HB's.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

im sure you are right bm. I just have a bad knack of breaking wires, so i have stayed away from magnet swaps. why the heck gibson dont make good sounding pickups out of the box is a mystery to me. The bbs are okay....but 57s? meh.
and kojak...im sure you are right also.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

im sure you are right bm. I just have a bad knack of breaking wires, so i have stayed away from magnet swaps. why the heck gibson dont make good sounding pickups out of the box is a mystery to me. The bbs are okay....but 57s? meh.

Yes, and the bizarre pairing up of the 498T/490R (very bright + very muffled). Don't know what they're thinking. PU's just aren't a big priority for Gibson, it's like their heart isn't in it. Look at all that Duncan and Dimarzio have done with PU's. You can tell where the passion is.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

I have basically the same guitar and after a lot of research and some discussion with Scott Miller at SD I ended up with a Seth bridge and a Jazz neck in my DOT. For my needs this turned out to be a great combination. Of course, I have always been a fan of the Seth bridge so it was a natural choice for my ear and YMMV.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

I haven't personally tried the Seth, but I would love to some day. I hear a lot of good comments about it.

John, haven't heard from you for a while. Good to see you are still in touch. Miss your store.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

Yes, and the bizarre pairing up of the 498T/490R (very bright + very muffled). Don't know what they're thinking. PU's just aren't a big priority for Gibson, it's like their heart isn't in it. Look at all that Duncan and Dimarzio have done with PU's. You can tell where the passion is.

I have to agree 100% BM,, and what puts a hair in my biscuit the most is the most famous and heralded pups in history are the 59 PAF`s ? ? you would THINK they would have stuck with that level of pup over the years rather than drifting off into a grey area in the pup world like they have.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

I have to agree 100% BM,, and what puts a hair in my biscuit the most is the most famous and heralded pups in history are the 59 PAF`s ? ? you would THINK they would have stuck with that level of pup over the years rather than drifting off into a grey area in the pup world like they have.

The anwer is very simple and you only need to look back: the Gibson company you know today is simply NOT the same that made the p'ups and guitars we all know and love. They went bankrupt. TWICE! And all original docs were either looted or distroyed. When Norlin took over, they had to start building "reverse-engineering" some Gibson guitars from the past. That's why the first two years models were out of whack with specs all over the place.

HTH,
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

I do like '57 Classics better at low volume than when turned way up. But over all I am extremely pleased with them. I would not take them out of the guitar, at any rate. They leave me wanting for nothing. They didn't do much for my '83 LP Custom (a multi-piece 12 pound pile of crap from the Dark Ages of Gibson guitars), so I put them in the Japanese Epi SG. The only thing that made that LP sound listenable to me was P90's. Originality be damned. At least I can play the thing now without cussing. The P90's were new Gibson ones. Again, they sound great to me. Wouldn't chose any other P90 when those sound as good as they do and cost as little.
 
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Re: Epi dot replacements

The anwer is very simple and you only need to look back: the Gibson company you know today is simply NOT the same that made the p'ups and guitars we all know and love. They went bankrupt. TWICE! And all original docs were either looted or distroyed. When Norlin took over, they had to start building "reverse-engineering" some Gibson guitars from the past. That's why the first two years models were out of whack with specs all over the place.

HTH,

I didn`t know they went bankrupt twice,,I had heard several stories about the Gibson empire and its fall from grace as it was in the hay days.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

The biggest debacle was when Norlin took over. That's when the Gibson co. became a "dumbed-down and cheaped-out", bad copy of itself.

When Henry J. took over, the bad abitudes were part of their workflow, so they just got bigger, not better.

When Gibeson was at its prime, the company were run by craftsmen turned businessmen. After that, it became a company run by suits with no prior knowledge of the business of making and dealing with musical instruments. For them a sale is a sale is a sale.

Wanna know what Gibson should look like if all what happened didn't? Just have a look at Heritage. The craftsmen from Gibson that just wouldn't take any crap from the suits from Norlin, who took matters in their own hands and stayed in the same place where they always have been, founding a company based on what they knew best: making guitars in the best way they could.

For the record, in the same time Heritage kept in business and growing accordingly, Gibson went bunkrupt again. Why do you think is that?

They are the REAL Gibson to me.

HTH,
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

When Gibson was at its prime, the company were run by craftsmen turned businessmen. After that, it became a company run by suits with no prior knowledge of the business of making and dealing with musical instruments. For them a sale is a sale is a sale.

God bless Ted McCarty. The groundbreaking innovations he led would have never have happened with current Gibson management.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

I do like '57 Classics better at low volume than when turned way up. But over all I am extremely pleased with them. I would not take them out of the guitar, at any rate. They leave me wanting for nothing. They didn't do much for my '83 LP Custom (a multi-piece 12 pound pile of crap from the Dark Ages of Gibson guitars), so I put them in the Japanese Epi SG. The only thing that made that LP sound listenable to me was P90's. Originality be damned. At least I can play the thing now without cussing. The P90's were new Gibson ones. Again, they sound great to me. Wouldn't chose any other P90 when those sound as good as they do and cost as little.

GFS Mean 90.
 
Re: Epi dot replacements

P.S. I put the Seths in today. Night and day difference, this dot sounds fantastic now. I knew it would be an improvement but had no idea it would be so huge. This is a real revelation, thanks again, guys.
 
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