Epi dot replacements

[CaseyW]

I have searched and know this topic may be done to death, but I have a twist on it, I hope. I had narrowed it to either a pair of Seths or PGs based on previous threads and the audio clips but I want to try to get the best -- i.e. warmest, straightest, purest "jazz box" tone from the neck that I can to accommodate that style for when I choose to play it. Which set would better provide that, and, is there any experience with the Benedetto B6 in the neck of this instrument?

Many thanks for any thoughts.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Epi dot replacements

I have searched and know this topic may be done to death, but I have a twist on it, I hope. I had narrowed it to either a pair of Seths or PGs based on previous threads and the audio clips but I want to try to get the best -- i.e. warmest, straightest, purest "jazz box" tone from the neck that I can to accommodate that style for when I choose to play it. Which set would better provide that, and, is there any experience with the Benedetto B6 in the neck of this instrument?

Many thanks for any thoughts.

What kind of instrument are we talking 'bout here? Semihollow or full hollow? Narrow body or deep body? Mahogany/maple or all maple? American made or import?

Well?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Epi dot replacements

They're both good choices, I have both, and would lean towards Seth's myself. They 'breathe' a little more.

 

[CaseyW]

Re: Epi dot replacements

What kind of instrument are we talking 'bout here? Semihollow or full hollow? Narrow body or deep body? Mahogany/maple or all maple? American made or import?

Well?

Sorry, I thought all dots were the same. It's a semi hollow thin line with laminated maple back, sides and top in natural finish. The neck is set mahogany. I had assumed that the block in the body was mahogany but am not certain. I had a sudden GAS attack and it was not my most well researched purchase ever.

It's an import from China bought new in late 2009. I enjoy playing it now that I am used to the 50s neck (which I would not necessarily have chosen if it were not an impulse buy) and it looks good enough, but I was quite disappointed in the stock pickups and don't mind putting more money in it if I can ramp it up to sound decent for jazz and blues. I already have a Gibson LP with push-pull Burstbuckers so I don't mind erring on the clean side, if that makes any sense.

Primarily I am trying to avoid having to go get a true hollow body archtop also, which I will do but the wife is already scratching her head at all these guitars. If I can get this to sound enough like one, the itch will be scratched.

That's why I was also curious about the Benedetto B6 in the neck. I could not find audio samples and was just curious about it. Otherwise I'm thinking Seths on the strength of blueman335's recommendation, being a fellow Floridian and all.

Thanks again for your interest and any thoughts.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Epi dot replacements

Sorry, I thought all dots were the same.

Well, actually I'm the one that should apologize. I read the body of the post, just NOT THE FREAKING TITLE! :banghead:

Sorry, my dog made me do it...! :eyecrazy:

Anyway, I have two 335 copies.

My #1 is a MIJ all-maple one and the backup is maple body/mahogany neck.

#1: A4 '59n / A8 Custom
backup: A4/A8 Jazz set.

With my #1 I can play just 'bout everything and then some.

With my backup I play mostly all things vintage-y, mostly classick rock and british blues.

I have a Gibson L-5 CES copy with a stock Seth Lover set that I use to play almost exclusively Jazz, as the guitar is strung with flatwounds.

Anyway, in your case, if you're going for the Jazz experience, I'd say the Antiquity humbucker set will be the best, being the Seth Lover set a close second.

I don't have any practical experience with the Benedetto line, which BTW are made by Duncan too.

HTH,

 

[AlexR]

Re: Epi dot replacements

I've got an Epi dot which got the replacement pickup/electronics bit right from the word go essentially. I went for '59's myself, but the Seth's I think would be better for what you are doing. This is a clip of seths in a semihollow:

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Epi dot replacements

I have a Seymourised Epi BB King Lucille. PGn and Brobucker.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Epi dot replacements

you wont get a dot or a 335 to sound like a hollowbody. it just aint gonna happen! so you gonna have to start taking your wife on some nice dates, or buy her some jewellery etc before you break it to her that you need another axe as well (after you put new pickups in your dot)!

oh yeah...i know all these cats are saying pgs or seths (both a2s) , but as a jazz player who plays both a hollow and a 335, i reckon 59s or a jazz neck (both a5s) are the way to go. Both the jazz and the 59 ring like bells.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Epi dot replacements

oh yeah...i know all these cats are saying pgs or seths (both a2s) , but as a jazz player who plays both a hollow and a 335, i reckon 59s or a jazz neck (both a5s) are the way to go. Both the jazz and the 59 ring like bells.

Except that he's saying 'warmth' is a high priority for him, and '59's and Jazz's have that sharp, bright A5 high end.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Epi dot replacements

My dot has had both '59s and Seths in it. I find the '59s work very well for Jazz . . . it's one of the nicest neck tones that I've heard to be honest. The Seth's are great pickups too (maybe a little more mid-rangey), but personally I'd try out the '59s first. There's plenty of warmth to my ears.

 

[Elias Graves]

Re: Epi dot replacements

As I diehard Seth Lover devotee, I'd go that route.
It's worth noting, however, that there's as much to be gained from pots and good quality wire asfrom the pickups themselves. Stock Epi wiring is not good.

EG

 

[bluesbend]

Re: Epi dot replacements

I have Seth's in my Dot. I've been very satisfied with them.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Epi dot replacements

Except that he's saying 'warmth' is a high priority for him, and '59's and Jazz's have that sharp, bright A5 high end.

So not just put an A2P in the nek then !
I thought it is the warmest low out put neck pu Duncan has, not so ?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Epi dot replacements

So not just put an A2P in the nek then !
I thought it is the warmest low out put neck pu Duncan has, not so ?

Another good choice, except that he said he narrowed down his choice to PG's or Seths, so most of us are expressing our prefernces on those two. '59N's are great PU's (I have a few), but the '59B is notoriously bright, unless you use 250K's and/or a warmer magnet (UOA5, A4, A8, A2).

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Epi dot replacements

Another good choice, except that he said he narrowed down his choice to PG's or Seths, so most of us are expressing our prefernces on those two. '59N's are great PU's (I have a few), but the '59B is notoriously bright, unless you use 250K's and/or a warmer magnet (UOA5, A4, A8, A2).

Understood.

Just thought that if he wants it for a very spesiffic genre (JAZZ), the warmest possible pu, would be best suited for that spesiffic genre.
Or alteast that is my train of thought.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Epi dot replacements

59s are plenty warm for jazz, so is a jazz neck.
He did not say he wanted a smooth overdriven tone, he said he wanted a warm straight ahead jazz tone. They also have a nice piano like bass response which is good. Also - a clearer pickup means you can roll off the treble on the amp a little more which i find very pleasing to the ears.
The warmth that people immediately regognize in classic jazz tones is gained in an unusual way...its using the rolled back volume and tone knobs a little to smooth oof the sound. Why do they do that i hear you ask? why dont they leave the tone and volume at 10 and use pedals or channel switching etc?
A lot of rock and blues players juts do everything with the volume on 10 cos its brighter and more present (plus gets more overdrive). Getting the right clean and warm jazz tone is different. here's why:
Saxophones dont have gain, pedals etc...the player mixes himself uning the mic and his breath.
Same goes for all wind instruments.
Pianos have an enormous dynamic range, so they use their fingers for mixing themselves.
Drummers in a jazz context use their hands too.
its all very subtle right?live sound engineers tend to set up the mics and then let the band do the rest.
A lot of straight jazz players use very little in the way of effects (mike stern et al notwithstanding) , generlaly you can say its guitar into amp. Its to gain maximum timbral response from the fingers. a clear unadorned sound gives a lot of scope for subtlety - kinda like how a classical player shapes their tone, or a sax or violin etc....
Now an electric guitar in a jazz combo spends a lot of time comping. in a jazz context a lot of that is about subtlety and blending - hence the use of the volume and tone knobs.
Same goes for lead - often if the player opens up the volume knob, they get a big extra dose of brightness, so they roll off the tone to keep that warm fat sound. Or - in the case of many many players, they dont often roll their volume up to 10 (if at all). As a result, pickups with wide frequency response work great, because the give the player a lot of flexibility to shape tones with subtlety and the musical context is constantly changing around them.
Its a whole different approach to the classic rock or blues thing, where you often kinda have a preset, clean tone, crunch rhythm and lead boost, then just switch between pickups of use different pedals for colour.
Thats why im recommending the 59 and or the jazz. Listening to you tube clips with someone jamming along using a lot of overdrive to with a synthy backing track is totally different from sitting in with a straight jazz band.

ps...treble detail is not by definition the opposite to warmth.
There is nothing wrong with some treble in a jazz tone too...listen to grant green (a gibson 330 with p90s) or wes montgomery (l5 thru a fender twin usually) or even charlie christian (again a single coil) . All 3 players have very different set ups, but they all sound warm. Check out Kenny Burrell too listen to how much work he does on the volume/tone knobs. or george benson. Kurl Rosenwinklel or Jonathan Kreisberg.
Seymour knew waht he was doing when he designed the jazz btw.....

 

[CaseyW]

Re: Epi dot replacements

You guys are great. As I am primarily a classical player this electronic stuff is very new to me, thanks again for all your time.

 

[atreidesheir]

Re: Epi dot replacements

Another good choice, except that he said he narrowed down his choice to PG's or Seths, so most of us are expressing our prefernces on those two. '59N's are great PU's (I have a few), but the '59B is notoriously bright, unless you use 250K's and/or a warmer magnet (UOA5, A4, A8, A2).

A 250k volume pot in bridge will deliver warmth nicely. Made my semihollow Guild Bluesbird with the stock 59s perfect for that guitar.

Remember the wood of a Dot should be very bright to begin.

Any of the vintage voiced HBs are good choices when you remember to use pickup height to control eq too.
And Jazz pickups have more treble than Paf types.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Epi dot replacements

A 250k volume pot in bridge will deliver warmth nicely. Made my semihollow Guild Bluesbird with the stock 59s perfect for that guitar.

Remember the wood of a Dot should be very bright to begin.

Any of the vintage voiced HBs are good choices when you remember to use pickup height to control eq too.
And Jazz pickups have more treble than Paf types.

i had a bluesbird with 59s too. just superb. its why i put 59s in my 335.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Epi dot replacements

ARemember the wood of a Dot should be very bright to begin.

True, usually maple bodies (necks can be maple or mahogany), but semi-hollows are an inherently warm design.